Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers • Hacker News Board

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#201

Post by WarDores » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #116

beaker52 wrote: post #80

It's always blown my mind that companies like this will operate not having enough cash on hand to actually provide the services they've sold. Maybe that's why they're in business and I'm not.

Well, reaching that point is the definition of insolvency. But having future commitments that you don't currently have the cash for is both normal and expected. The economy is held together by invoice credit. (Wait until the people who get upset about banks "creating money" realise how commercial credit works and discover "shadow banking"...)

Anyone interested in the "creating money" aspect of banks should definitely read a paper called "The Monetary Basis of Bank Supervision" (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3421232).

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#202

Post by Scoundreller » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

switch007 wrote: post #63

arcticbull wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very good point. Travelers have shifted over the years from an all-inclusive package booking process to a DIY piecemeal approach and it’s hard for package sellers to compete against the OTAs.

Except the 600,000 customers currently abroad

But the pricing power TC had over them had been eroded.

When there’s less demand, but the same supply, price has to give.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#203

Post by Silhouette » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

sligor wrote: post #122

arthurfm wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Guardian article mentions that hotels have to wait up to 3 months to be paid by the holiday company. I can see why the Tunisian hotel did what they did, but you are correct that their business relationship is with Thomas Cook, not the holidaymakers. Meanwhile, Thomas Cook holidaymakers were anxious that they might be evicted from their hotels or charged again for their holidays. Holiday companies do not normally…

>> I can see why the Tunisian hotel did what they did that's hostage taking, it is a crime, there is no excuse.

The most disturbing thing I've seen in the reporting this week was that the local police were called at one point, but they sided with the hotel and told the holidaymakers to go back inside!

I find it remarkable that, at least in the group who were being interviewed on TV yesterday after they made it home, the disagreements did not become physical. If my family were being detained against our will like that, not only spoiling the holiday but potentially leaving us stranded due to missing flights home, by people who were apparently prepared to forcibly prevent us leaving until large amounts of money had been paid that were not due, I'm not sure I would have been so tolerant. Some of the other groups affected at that hotel reportedly were not, but if the local police are going to side with the hotel as well, that's a very disturbing situation.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#204

Post by theboulevardier » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

tpmx wrote: post #151

rwmj wrote: post #75

I guess as they've gone bust I can tell this story now ... I used to consult for Thomas Cook about 15 years ago, and they were a basketcase of a company even back them, so this doesn't surprise me. I feel sorry for all the reps and workers out in the field and on the planes who will lose their jobs because of the profligacy of the Peterborough head office. Two examples of stupidity stick with me. One was that at the…

Suddenly Google's ad profits make a lot more sense.

If you go with Google's suggestions when you setup an Adwords campaign, they will absolutely rinse your budget with minimal return. Google has a churn and burn mentality when it comes their Adwords customers as most new businesses fail within 12 months.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#205

Post by ezoe » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #43

> Customers at a hotel in Tunisia reported being locked in by security guards as the hotel demanded extra money, fearing it would not be paid by Thomas Cook. This is quite bad behaviour from the hotel. Presumably their business relationship is with Thomas Cook, not the people on holidays? They went as far as grabbing people who jumped a wall in an attempt to get out! More details here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-4…

It's between a hotel and Thomas Cook's problem.

Thomas Cook book the hotel. Hotel promised to allocate a room for Thomas Cook. Thomas Cook will pay the hotel fee. Hotel receive the fee from Thomas Cook.

The customer who actually use the hotel owes nothing from the hotel.

The same goes for Airlines.

It's a textbook example really.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#206

Post by Silhouette » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

pfdietz wrote: post #147

sligor wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's see how the authorities react to such hostage-taking. If they do nothing quickly then, yes, it is a very bad thing for the country notoriety

It would be an act of war against the UK.

It feels like that ought to be inflammatory and hyperbolic, but honestly, I was wondering the same thing myself last night.

If you're the British government, and your citizens who are legitimately in a foreign country, travelling on valid passports and doing nothing wrong, are being forcibly detained, and if the local authorities are not stepping in to try to resolve the situation in some reasonable way, how do you treat that situation?

On the one hand, you presumably want to be diplomatic when dealing with another nation. Certainly you don't want to escalate any potentially violent stand-off unnecessarily.

On the other hand, the basic facts are that those are your people and they're in trouble through no fault of their own. Isn't your first responsibility to protect them and get them safely home if need be? At some point, there will inevitably be a very serious discussion about how far you need to go to do that, and that discussion will consider deploying scary people with weapons in another country, which most certainly is an act of war.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#207

Post by Jefff8 » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #75

I guess as they've gone bust I can tell this story now ... I used to consult for Thomas Cook about 15 years ago, and they were a basketcase of a company even back them, so this doesn't surprise me. I feel sorry for all the reps and workers out in the field and on the planes who will lose their jobs because of the profligacy of the Peterborough head office. Two examples of stupidity stick with me. One was that at the…

I guess, I can say that I worked on a project for introducing interactive advertising displays into their branches. It was killed because they didn't like the power cabling.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#208

Post by rad_gruchalski » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 2:27 PM UTC

C1sc0cat wrote: post #175

pyvpx wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's a german legal liability thing. not (just) european business generally being stuck in the 90s

What linking to your uk subsidiary? Was that the 1890's they are stuck in :-)

Almost. 1930s and 1960s. That’s what I hear from my German wife.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#209

Post by Symbiote » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #206

pfdietz wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be an act of war against the UK.

It feels like that ought to be inflammatory and hyperbolic, but honestly, I was wondering the same thing myself last night. If you're the British government, and your citizens who are legitimately in a foreign country, travelling on valid passports and doing nothing wrong, are being forcibly detained, and if the local authorities are not stepping in to try to resolve the situation in some reasonable way, how do you t…

If this isn't resolved, staff from the British Embassy will show up, and the local police will probably think again — or be instructed by the national police or their government.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#210

Post by vesinisa » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 2:33 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #185

vesinisa wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Company being old certainly does not mean it needs to be full of legacy systems and business processes. It only means that the company's management is not competent at evolving the company's processes and systems, which means it will eventually fail regardless of being a fresh startup or centuries old going concern. Bosch, Siemens, Bayer, BASF and Carl-Zeiss are all examples of over hundred year-old German companies…

Those companies innovate and do well but they're not online businesses. They sell specialized niche high tech physical goods not digital services.

What about IBM? Founded in 1911, $13B profit in 2018. Most successful company in several online business sectors.

What about Nokia? Founded originally in 1865 as a paper mill, re-invented itself multiple times in countless different industries, before becoming the leading mobile phone manufacturer in 1990s and 2000s. They did eventually indeed succumb to their failure to evolve, but a more competent management post 2006 would have likely saved the company.