The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#251

Post by tomc1985 » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

bakuninsbart wrote: post #177

js8 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, in really well-designed UI of the past, every menu option had a hint in the status bar, every GUI element had a tool tip, that explained what will happen when you click on it. I find modern applications (especially mobile ones) much harder to discover and use. If you're a teen, you have plenty of time to experiment, but as an adult, I just want to get the work done. Yeah, you could say that I don't want to lear…

I think a major difference is also that for the teens of today, these apps are intuitive, if they are well designed. They take like 20 seconds to figure everything out. It is just us oldies who grew up with mouse and keyboard who have these problems.

But they aren't. There is a language nowadays but it isn't nearly as consistent, and corrupted by so many dark patterns. Hamburger menu or three dots? Is this circle with color filled in activated or disabled? Is that a button/link or is it flavor?

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#252

Post by treypitt » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #185

EliRivers wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned very thoroughly that the software version details were under "Help -> About". If it's not there, I'm not only stumped; I'm genuinely angry. That doesn't have to be logical; emotional reactions happen by themselves. Making me angry with your software is not good for sales. Running on my desktop this very second; Postman. "Help" has no about. It has a "Check for Updates", but that doesn't tell me my current v…

Newer versions of MS Office (with that ribbon) have the same problem. There is an About dialog, but getting to it is a process that I still can't remember after having to do it a few times. Yet Help->About is still in my mind after all these years, despite not using it all that much. The idiotic full screen save menu that forces you to click a few more times to save on the computer instead of a cloud service (I'm sur…

thanks for the link! completely agree. I strongly recommend libreoffice from a design perspective

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#253

Post by tomc1985 » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 5:17 PM UTC

shantly wrote: post #232

agent008t wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Linux/Windows computer in a household is a device that allows both consuming and creating. Many, if not most of us got into creating using a computer just by having access to one and being curious. An iPhone or an iPad is just a device for consumption. It completely hides, if not locks you out of, the underlying workings of the device, meaning that you learn nothing and you create nothing.

> An iPhone or an iPad is just a device for consumption. Absurd. There are a huge number of tasks for which, if I'm only allowed one device to accomplish it, I'd definitely take an iPad over a laptop. Practically anything involving photography or recording video or audio, for instance. Many sorts of art. Music, depending on the task. If allowed an external keyboard it's better than a laptop for writing in some enviro…

Every 'creative' app I've used on IOS has been disappointing. Even if the GUI is decent touch detection is so imprecise that its always super easy to fat-finger things. FLStudio vs FL mobile, for example

When I was younger I thought it would be cool to DJ with a three-iPad setup-- two ipads acting like a turntable/CDJ and a third acting as a mixer. Nowadays, putting on my performer hat, I would hate that setup as I feel like I would be fighting with the touch interface. I'll take real buttons and knobs on dedicated hardware any day of the week.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#254

Post by tomc1985 » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 5:20 PM UTC

rienbdj wrote: post #206

agent008t wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Linux/Windows computer in a household is a device that allows both consuming and creating. Many, if not most of us got into creating using a computer just by having access to one and being curious. An iPhone or an iPad is just a device for consumption. It completely hides, if not locks you out of, the underlying workings of the device, meaning that you learn nothing and you create nothing.

you have a very narrow idea of what creating is. non programming tasks don't require low level system access.

Realtime, low-latency audio does, though

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#255

Post by jodrellblank » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

techslave wrote: post #7

eh. that’s about what i think. and not just about computer skills. driving skills basic reading comprehension the ability to think more than one step ahead i know it’s not going to be a popular opinion, but yes most people are stupid.

It's not that it's an unpopular opinion; "hurr, everyone (except me) is dumb, lol" is extremely popular.

But it isn't a good, useful, insightful comment.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#256

Post by Izkata » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 5:32 PM UTC

whoopdedo wrote: post #224

asjw wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's just dumbing down the options. It's recognition over recollection. It is well known that recognition is easier, and that's why consistency help so much. But used everywhere, as if it was the only available tool, it makes discoverability less safe, hence it reduces it. If street signs are well positioned I don't need to know the route, if there are no signs and I don't recognize the place, I'm doomed. If…

It's always been recognition over recollection. Users don't want to learn how the computer works. They just want to get to their desired solution as quick as possible. So they'll pay attention long enough to learn the correct sequence of buttons to push that achieves that then stop there. Any change to that mechanical process, no matter how innate to the UI it is, will be seen as a disruption. I used to think that UX…

This may be of interest, basically the same sentiment: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-co...

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#257

Post by jodrellblank » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

benologist wrote: post #9

vortico wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see what open-source software has to do with this data. If someone is unable to move their mouse pointer to the Delete icon of an email client, the license of the software likely has no effect.

Learning how to use, configure and create open source is definitely one of the highest-proficiency forms of computer usage. Especially creating but even using open source requires a bevvy of advanced skills identifying appropriate software and getting it to run. The strongest 5% of computer users they found can barely search email and some % are pursuing incredibly sophisticated skills through open source setting up…

using open source requires a bevvy of advanced skills identifying appropriate software and getting it to run.

Are you taking the position that open source is heroic because it has garbage user experience?

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#258

Post by shantly » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 6:05 PM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #253

shantly wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An iPhone or an iPad is just a device for consumption. Absurd. There are a huge number of tasks for which, if I'm only allowed one device to accomplish it, I'd definitely take an iPad over a laptop. Practically anything involving photography or recording video or audio, for instance. Many sorts of art. Music, depending on the task. If allowed an external keyboard it's better than a laptop for writing in some enviro…

Every 'creative' app I've used on IOS has been disappointing. Even if the GUI is decent touch detection is so imprecise that its always super easy to fat-finger things. FLStudio vs FL mobile, for example When I was younger I thought it would be cool to DJ with a three-iPad setup-- two ipads acting like a turntable/CDJ and a third acting as a mixer. Nowadays, putting on my performer hat, I would hate that setup as I f…

Well yeah, of course dedicated pro hardware's gonna be better. Physical knobs and buttons are awesome. Most'd probably take those over a PC keyboard (the qwerty type, not like a midi keyboard), too, for real work in music, if not allowed both. I'm not claiming iOS devices do everything really well, but if you just want a portable all-in-one creation device for a wide variety of needs and don't care about programming very much there's a good chance a tablet's gonna serve you quite well.

I find the iPad great for drawing (with Pencil) and anywhere from pretty good to great for all kinds of other creative work, especially compared to a PC/laptop with either having only its out-of-the-box equipment (no big add-ons), which is to say it's excellent for hobbyists, small-timers or newbies to a whole bunch of creative fields. But of course I can also watch Netflix on it, and it's nearly useless for dev work except as a terminal device, so... that makes it consumption-focused while PCs are creation focused I guess? I mean I've been using PCs since the DOS days so I'm not some touchscreen native, but the assertion just doesn't make any sense to me, yet it keeps coming up in developer circles. I don't see them (primarily-touchscreen portables) in my life and the way I see them used by others as any more consumption-focused than PCs, really, they're just good at a bunch of stuff PCs aren't so great at, and bad at some stuff PCs are good at. I do not understand the source of that claim, a single bit, unless "consumption" is "anything that's not computer programming".

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#259

Post by chongli » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 6:20 PM UTC

viklove wrote: post #241

aequitas wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I love macOS. Every application has the menubar at the top with everything in the right place. Apple's design guidelines also dictate that every action should be available as menu item. Preferences can always be summoned using the same keyboard shortcut, File open/save dialogs behave the same. It just works. Except for those few applications that are plainly ported from Windows or Linux without a thought…

Then you want to disable mouse acceleration, and you're humped. Apple's approach to simplicity is just to extinguish user choice. That's not a great approach.

The trick to disabling mouse acceleration is not to move the slider all the way to the left. I believe it’s the position two notches to the right of the lowest setting which gives a linear response. Above and below that point you’re flipping the concavity of the curve.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#260

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 6:23 PM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #125

scarface74 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many mechanics that will do free or low cost inspections for things like that, why wouldn’t I do that before going on a long trip? Speaking of which, that’s yet another thing we pay for other people to do. If it’s a trip longer than about five hours we are flying or if we are being cheap and it’s not too far (around 6 to 7 hours) and if possible, taking the MegaBus.

Going to a mechanic to have your oil level and tire pressure checked sounds like you would spend more time driving than just doing it. Then there is the fact that about half those places specialize in making up stuff that is wrong with dumb peoples cars to rip them off.

We also fly out of Atlanta - the world’s busiest airport - and live an hour or more away depending on traffic. The calculus between whether it’s worth the hassle to deal with going to the airport, driving, or taking MegaBus changes the calculus considering the ceremony of getting on the plane can take an additional 2-3 hours with travel, security, and getting there early.