I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento • Hacker News Board

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#251

Post by jogjayr » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 3:10 PM UTC

SamReidHughes wrote: post #229

kranner wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The honor system should extend to trusting employee's assessment of them being sick enough not to be able to work. No, we don't all get to choose who we are. People don't choose to have depression, or >

Not when they get sick every year the last week of December.

That would be a valid reason to ask for a doctor's note. But even then I'd only do it if their absence is negatively impacting productivity and they're really needed at work. Or if there is something else in their performance I was concerned about.

Otherwise a lot of offices are basically empty at that time, so who cares? As long as they're not coming to work when they're actually sick so they can hoard sick days, does it matter?

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#252

Post by sharkweek » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 3:36 PM UTC

SamReidHughes wrote: post #229

kranner wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The honor system should extend to trusting employee's assessment of them being sick enough not to be able to work. No, we don't all get to choose who we are. People don't choose to have depression, or >

Not when they get sick every year the last week of December.

Even then, and I can appreciate that it might not be likely, but what if the holidays are a rough time for some and their depression spikes?

I’d rather live in a world where I can believe that most people are trustworthy and only a few are not.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#253

Post by cambaceres » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 3:55 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #113

jkaplowitz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For vacation days, your point makes sense to me. For sick days, people don't get to choose when they get sick. Someone can just as easily get sick on day 1 or 2 of a job as on day 401 or 402.

I once talked to a manager about how he handed out raises. He mentioned one engineer who was sick exactly 10 days out of each year. Coincidentally, the company offered 10 days of paid sick leave a year. He laughed, and said she wasn't fooling anyone, and didn't give her a raise.

I'm from Sweden and I used to work at a warehouse before and between my stuides. Here, everything if focused about the rights for the employee. As soon as you have worked for 6 months at one place, you have what we call "permanent employment", which basically means that you can't be fired unless you repeatedly fuck up big time (coming drunk to work repeatedly, steal from the company etc).

Anyway, here you can be sick for 5 days in a row (and get 80% of your salary), after that you have to go to a doctor and get a paper that you are in fact sick. Futhermore, you can be sick for 6 times a year, after that you have to talk to the boss and explain yourself. People used this to the maximum, meaning that on top of the 5 weeks per year people got payed vacation, they were all "sick" an additional 6 weeks, always 5 days at a time. The employers can't do anything, as people with permanent employment can't be fired.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#254

Post by landryraccoon » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 3:57 PM UTC

sharkweek wrote: post #171

WalterBright wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is improper to take sick leave if you're not sick. It wouldn't be improper if it is labeled PTO. I.e. it depends on how the policy is written.

Define sick. Contagious cold? A rough day with anxiety/depression? Struggling with the side effects of a new medicine? Hung over from a night of partying? If the company’s policy is 10 days, then there is zero reason to negatively judge an employee for using those days.

Just to clarify, your argument is that sick days should be used as PTO, because the term “sick” is impossible to define and therefore meaningless?

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#255

Post by kevintb » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

I was agreeing somewhat until this part:

> “Never take a sick day during your first year of employment with any company, no matter what.” My wife and I have literally gone years between sick days.

And it all went downhill from there. God forbid this guy be struck with cancer or a chronic disease.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#256

Post by xyzzyz » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 6:07 PM UTC

bhl wrote: post #31

Note that the publishing title of the article is “Tourist Journalism Versus the Working Class”, which should be an indication of the author’s bias. The story initially begins with comparing the personal, working experience of the author with what he has seen depicted in the media. I thought it was compelling, even if the author worked in a “sortation warehouse” instead of the “fulfillment center” frequently covered,…

I think what you are confused about is that these days most talking about diversity is for the purpose of signaling the tribal identity of the speaker, as opposed to conveying some message. Thus, once someone signals their belonging to the other tribe (“I work for amazon and it’s quite okay, those damn journals don’t know a thing about life”), the other signal sounds strange and out of place.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#257

Post by coldtea » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 6:27 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #113

jkaplowitz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For vacation days, your point makes sense to me. For sick days, people don't get to choose when they get sick. Someone can just as easily get sick on day 1 or 2 of a job as on day 401 or 402.

I once talked to a manager about how he handed out raises. He mentioned one engineer who was sick exactly 10 days out of each year. Coincidentally, the company offered 10 days of paid sick leave a year. He laughed, and said she wasn't fooling anyone, and didn't give her a raise.

Then he is an absolute idiot. The engineer could be sickly and be sick 20 or more days in a year, but only take the minimum allowed (to not lose her paycheck).

I'm down with flu, stomach issues, gout and a few other things far more days in a year than the company's paid sick leave. And while I might not take all of them, and go to work sick, it's within the rights of anybody to do so.

If the company is offering 10 paid sick days, and he is discriminating based on using those, then he should be sued to extinction...

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#258

Post by goldcd » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 6:28 PM UTC

the8472 wrote: post #93

goldcd wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I disagree. If job roles are arranged like a pyramid (wide base of lower paid jobs, with lower number of higher paid jobs above) - the largest benefit is always going to be automating away the high number of low paid jobs. Amazon might roll out some pick-and-pack droids - but are unlikely to replace Jeff with an AI farm of CEO-leadership. If you say look at say what Uber or AirBNB have done, it's replacing th…

I don't see how this contradicts the argument above.

I don't think I was specifically seeking to contradict anything you said.

If it's cost-effective to replace you with a machine, then it's probably going to happen. You can present your shareholders with the nitty-gritty numbers and the result is given.

I was just pondering the idea that as you rise up the pyramid we still retain the idea that these people are irreplaceable.

If you read any corporate history, there's always somebody portrayed as the bad-guy who clung onto some random notion that then caused the failure - and conversely the good guy that saved the company.

You can boil this down a bit to statements like "Why don't we all own an Atari console today?" (usual answer is that people at the top made made decisions, and bottom of the pyramid didn't matter).

A more modern example of "AI-CEO-wins" would be say... "Butterfly keyboards on Macs"

Data-mining reports that nobody likes them, and correct decision would be to revert to the previous standard.

This is seemingly about to happen after many years, many revisions, much expense and ridicule - and my postulated idea as to why this long saga happened, was because the decision was left to exceptionally well paid people, with vested personal interest.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#259

Post by coldtea » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 6:30 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #162

CPLX wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s not a fucking thing that’s even slightly improper about taking your allotted PTO days.

It is improper to take sick leave if you're not sick. It wouldn't be improper if it is labeled PTO. I.e. it depends on how the policy is written.

Did he prove she wasn't sick in those days?

No. His argument was "she only took 10 sick days, as many as our paid sick days policy", so he deduced she was faking it.

Such reasoning, especially when it affects promotion opportunities etc, is not just without proof, but also immoral, and punishable by law. At least in the civilized western world (Europe) it would be.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#260

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

fountainofage wrote: post #157

WalterBright wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once talked to a manager about how he handed out raises. He mentioned one engineer who was sick exactly 10 days out of each year. Coincidentally, the company offered 10 days of paid sick leave a year. He laughed, and said she wasn't fooling anyone, and didn't give her a raise.

Lots of comments, but no one has just come out and said it: Fuck. That. Manager. They care about butts in seats more than results, and they've deliberately sought out the metrics to justify it.

[deleted]