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If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

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251–260 of 301 posts

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm fascinated by both how far humans have come, and how peaceful we've become. If you told an ancient human about, say, genocide, do you think they even be capable of reactions as cold as, say, these: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18102401 ? We live in a world were wars of aggression are still sanctified, and phrases like "fun sized terrorist" are still invented. Playing nice with murderers is not peaceful,…

You mean the same ancient humans that forced their slaves to become gladiators so that their populations could fill their lust for blood, the same ancient humans that viciously persecuted those who refused to worship their emperor as a god, the same ancient humans that would capture religious minorities, cover them in oil, and line them up along the roads to burn? Humans both ancient and modern are not peaceful creat…

> You mean the same ancient humans that forced their slaves to become gladiators

I was thinking more along the lines of hunters and gatherers. Ancient Humans, not Ancient Romans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladiator

I know you can find loads of cruel things elsewhere, too. Can you find them before cities?

And even for Ancient Romans I wouldn't be so sure, they kinda prided themselves in arguing coherently. Even just changing the subject like that, whether from genocide or not, doesn't strike me as something the super legalistic and literal Romans would have been so prone to do. And at any rate, they're much, much closer to us than to ancient humans.

> so that their populations could fill their lust for blood

There is no such thing as an inherent lust for blood. This kinda sounds like Freud's drive to death and all that.

> the same ancient humans that would capture religious minorities, cover them in oil, and line them up along the roads to burn

Napalm.. Agent Orange.. depleted uranium.. not even to punish for something they considered sacrilege, but just to get rid of people.

> Humans both ancient and modern are not peaceful creatures

I'm not talking about peaceful, I'm talking about sadism and cruelty and greed for their own sake, and about being numbed to it. If you say humans have a lust for blood, that doesn't convince me at all, but it's proof positive that in 2019 (not still, since hundreds of thousands of years, but by now, since a few ten thousand maybe) we live in a world where that claim goes mostly uncontested.

In my books, very sick people have a lust for blood because they need to destroy persons, because they haven't developed into a person. Other people probably have stuff like, for example, a desire for vengeance that gets created alongside the crime to be avenged, or a strong desire to push back when they are threatened, which gets created when they are threatened, but doesn't exist before or after. But just some kind of lingering dark thing that needs to be fed, some spooky "lust for blood"? I doubt you can find that without a form of abuse being somewhere in the equation, systematic or otherwise.

> [Humans] have been genetically programmed through hunting behavior: cooperation and sharing. Cooperation between members of the same band was a practical necessity for most hunting societies; so was the sharing of food. Since meat is perishable in most climates except that of the Arctic, it could not be preserved. Luck in hunting was not equally divided among all hunters; hence the practical outcome was that those who had luck today would share their food with those who would be lucky tomorrow. Assuming hunting behavior led to genetic changes, the conclusion would be that modern man has an innate impulse for cooperation and sharing, rather than for killing and cruelty.

-- Erich Fromm, "The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness"

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#252
post #4

A long time ago before I was treated for bipolar disorder I found my depression was related to anger turned inward at myself. But others I have talked to didn’t always relate this way as I did with depression.

If you mean inward anger = self-loathing / self-hatred, you are right as that's a common symptom of depression too.

Exactly what I had :)

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#253
post #28

The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing terrible things, especially when in a group. I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I learn more and live longer my outlo…

Your comment aligns with an old HN comment that I have saved that resonated with me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16402387 I'd also recommend people feeling this way to read The Happiness Hypothesis by Jonathan Haidt. It helped me.

Thanks for sharing these. The comment very much resonates with me. There are some other resonating comments in these threads. It feels good to read those; I feel less alone.

Those nicely articulated thoughts might honestly help me deal with my episodes.

I should take a look at the book too.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#254
post #28

The more you know about the world and tech especially, the more you will get depressed, IMO, maybe I'm wrong. Humans in general are pretty shitty, driven mostly by self-interest. I guess there are people driven by doing good but most people are capable of doing terrible things, especially when in a group. I do suffer from existential depression, I'm generally pretty happy, but as I learn more and live longer my outlo…

> before accepting defeat. What does accepting defeat mean in your opinion?

For me it is accepting the things as they are, and just getting on with life and pretending to be relatively happy to satisfy my SO.

I generally try to help others, but I'm talking about bigger things like income inequality, healthcare costs of which I don't have any control over. I make enough money now, not to worry about those things but many people do and it bothers me.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#255

This was precisely my wife's symptoms when we were first married. She was angry nearly all the time. She could hold it together in public, but at home it was miserable. She would go a full day at a time, alternatively not speaking, stomping around and throwing things, and yelling. It took a long time for her to be correctly diagnosed. It wasn't clear to me that depression was the issue, because as discussed in the ar…

I had a similar experience with an ex-girlfriend. She was verbally abusive and sometimes even physically. I tried to break up with her multiple times but ended up being gaslight to stay.

One time she removed the axel from my front bike tire hoping that I would crash and get injured when I went over a bump. She absolutely refused to get help even though I offered to take her.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finland. I sometimes try import foods, thinking I might discover the missing piece of the puzzle. I'll keep a look out for Italian!

Keep your eyes peeled for "doppio zero" flour. Seems to be the highest quality.

Not the highest quality, just the most finely ground.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One might consider it somewhat condescending but I find that I rarely have emotional reactions to people I don't know. Only people close to me, people whom I've come to have expectations, can bring out my emotional side. The rest, I chalk it up to forces of nature. Terrorism? Force of nature. Someone being shitty on public transit? Force of nature. Littering? Force of nature. We can change our environment though and…

It is completely possible to eschew those feelings of expectations from other people as well. It makes life much easier. All suffering comes from a desire unfulfilled. To desire others to act as you would and not as they would is to set yourself up for disappointment.

stoicism I see

I think that's too cynical for me these days; we love relationships; it's just that our culture didn't nurture our nature

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#258

This was precisely my wife's symptoms when we were first married. She was angry nearly all the time. She could hold it together in public, but at home it was miserable. She would go a full day at a time, alternatively not speaking, stomping around and throwing things, and yelling. It took a long time for her to be correctly diagnosed. It wasn't clear to me that depression was the issue, because as discussed in the ar…

I'm afraid of recommending psychiatry's shotgun approach of throwing tricyclic antidepressant meds at someone until they subjectively feel an improvement in their quality of being from their baseline depressed state. Getting there requires taking all sorts of serotonin/dopaminergic etc neurotransmitter flooding/inhibiting drugs that made me feel like a lifeless zombie that I only recovered from by quitting cold turkey and enforcing a strict routine of eating clean, 7-8 hrs of sleep, mediation, hydrating, and minimal tech distractions

Quitting cold turkey put me through withdrawal hell, Google "brain zaps" if you want to read up on what that torture feels like.

I think in the future we will look back at the field of psychiatry medication today like it was medieval/primitive times.

With that being said, if it has the possibility to help you then by all means try it, but don't be afraid to jump ship if you can find a natural way to rebalance your brain. If only I knew that path existed before getting on meds.

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#259
post #230
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: You may have steel skin, but for most people, that feels like an attack. The person you’re questioning can perceive in your body language and tone of voice...Communication is hard... You are right, communicating is indeed hard. Achieving clarity, brevity, and social "friendliness" at the same time is a multi-skill that most people get wrong: they tend to do one or two well, but rarely all three. I will readily ag…

(Reply to "sjjshzvuiajhz" at this level because there's a message nesting limit on HN.) Let me get this straight: you are insisting I "just feel" different? Just somehow make my brain like certain people? I realize there are books about forcing oneself to have different emotions, but they often don't work. It's like asking a fan of classical music to just start liking hip-hip and vice-versa. "Just change your head".…

I can second everything sjjshzvuiajhz is saying. Approach people with humility and positivity and they will care surprisingly little if you're weird or socially awkward. People don't necessarily need conversational poetry - they just want to feel safe, at ease.

These kinds of things aren't skills that it takes 100,000 hours to learn. They're "habits of mind". Adopting them is more like learning to get up on time or learning to eat well, than learning to play an instrument - once you've decided what it is you're doing, it's more about persistence than skill. You have good days and bad days, but if you stoically keep at it, you'll be rewarded.

Of course, if you talk to people all the time, you'll get better at the whole conversation thing quite naturally, over a long time. But it's best not to stress about that.

Humility and positivity.

(And in fact, challenging your brain with music you don't normally listen to is far from impossible; quite the reverse, it's one more habit of a healthy, plastic mind!)

Re: If You're Often Angry or Irritable, You May Be Depressed

#260
post #258

This was precisely my wife's symptoms when we were first married. She was angry nearly all the time. She could hold it together in public, but at home it was miserable. She would go a full day at a time, alternatively not speaking, stomping around and throwing things, and yelling. It took a long time for her to be correctly diagnosed. It wasn't clear to me that depression was the issue, because as discussed in the ar…

I'm afraid of recommending psychiatry's shotgun approach of throwing tricyclic antidepressant meds at someone until they subjectively feel an improvement in their quality of being from their baseline depressed state. Getting there requires taking all sorts of serotonin/dopaminergic etc neurotransmitter flooding/inhibiting drugs that made me feel like a lifeless zombie that I only recovered from by quitting cold turke…

> tricyclic antidepressant

these are different than SSRIs and not very frequently prescribed nowadays.

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