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Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

reuters.com

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Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#251

Post by mrep »

pointillistic wrote: post #45

Honest argument about these issues is no longer possible on HN or elsewhere on the Net. People immediately move into ideological formations and the rational conversation falls away. The down-votes and up-votes have nothing to do with content or even the subject but only with the perceived team. I would ban politically charged conversation on HN, if this was up to me.

I don't know about ban, but an automated mechanism which removes up/downvoting anytime their are too many in a thread sounds like a good option to me.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#252

Post by mercer »

pointillistic wrote: post #45

Honest argument about these issues is no longer possible on HN or elsewhere on the Net. People immediately move into ideological formations and the rational conversation falls away. The down-votes and up-votes have nothing to do with content or even the subject but only with the perceived team. I would ban politically charged conversation on HN, if this was up to me.

If we're going to ban people, I propose we start banning users who post whiny, pointless comments first.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#253

Post by rwj »

sitkack wrote: post #139
paulddraper wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? Your link says in 2013 the U.S. was near its neighbor Canada on per capita carbon emissions. That's still double the EU. But that's also 6 years ago; the gap will have closed somewhat.

And Canada reflects the emission levels of rich Americans. Canada is no roll model on carbon emission.

Canada is not at all spherical...

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#254

Post by tguedes »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #237
dunpeal wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you also advocate for an embargo of China, which pollutes at over twice the rate of the US? How about embargo of the EU, which currently pollutes at roughly the same rate? Did you know that energy production in the US is overall more environmentally friendly than in Germany, for example?

The US has one of the highest CO2 per capita of the OECD. Germany emits half the CO2 per capita that the US does. Also, Chinese people don’t drive stupid big SUV and trucks while running the AC on full blast all summer.

So place an embargo on the US because people want to buy big cars? That seems smart.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#255

Post by paulddraper »

pierrebai wrote: post #243
paulddraper wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? Your link says in 2013 the U.S. was near its neighbor Canada on per capita carbon emissions. That's still double the EU. But that's also 6 years ago; the gap will have closed somewhat.

Read the central table, the data is from 2015. Every metrics shows the US is worse: total, per capita, per GDP. (The last two shows the US is more than twice as much polluting. I doubt thé US cut it's emmision by more than half since 2015. Other country are also not standing still. Germany vowed to cut off coal entirely in the next decades.)

Alright, central table.

So is @anc84 advocating for the embargo of Australia too, whose 2015 pollution is even higher than the United States?

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#256

Post by pygy_ »

slededit wrote: post #246
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has one of the highest CO2 per capita of the OECD. Germany emits half the CO2 per capita that the US does. Also, Chinese people don’t drive stupid big SUV and trucks while running the AC on full blast all summer.

The US emits more CO2 while Europe releases far more NOx and other more “traditional” pollutants. The diesel emissions scandal in the US had a European counterpart that was never dealt with. 2018 models are still polluting far above the official limits which themselves are more lax than the US. [1] [1] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180921140151.h...

The effect of those "other more “traditional” pollutants" is mostly local, whereas global warming and ocean acidification are global.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#257

Post by morrbo »

rusk wrote: post #179
morrbo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol mate you're really not getting it. You said "the geography is a bit of an issue for physical goods". I'm saying, when you can order a sheep from new zealand, or a USB stick from China, and have it show up a few days or a week later, this isn't really a good argument.

"lol mate" what is this snapchat? , you're the one that's not getting it. "The geography is a bit of an issue for physical goods" when you're not producing goods cheap enough to cover the cost of transit. The UK does not produce cheap goods. Quite the opposite. I don't think racing to the bottom in living standards to compete productively with China is something that people voting for Brexit had in mind.

The UK would be IMPORTING goods from the US.. I don't get where you're getting this idea we'd be exporting cheap goods from the UK to the US. The examples i explicitly stated were things like education, specialized tech (which would be fine for shipping), and access to financial services, which once again doesn't need shipping. For the last time, i'm not saying that the UK is going suddenly start mass producing cheap goods to export to the US? I dont know where you've got that idea from. The US, however, does create a lot of cheap goods which they'd be exporting TO the UK, such as your corn, meats, etc.

The main issue people are concerned about is that the UK would be flooded with cheaper/sub standard goods (re. chlorinated chicken) that they can't differentiate between standard UK/EU products which are of a higher quality. Currently, US meat is outright banned in the EU, if there's an influx in cheap/chemically altered meats coming from the US which people can't differentiate from (this is partially due to the terms of the trading deal banning branding of goods as "Produced in the UK") then people are worried they'd accidentally end up buying them.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#258

Post by 7952 »

dunpeal wrote: post #225
anc84 wrote: post #48

We should have embargos on the US for pursuing a climate change program that destroys the planet.

Do you also advocate for an embargo of China, which pollutes at over twice the rate of the US? How about embargo of the EU, which currently pollutes at roughly the same rate? Did you know that energy production in the US is overall more environmentally friendly than in Germany, for example?

Per capita CO2 emissions are much worse in the US than China. China also has CO2 reduction policies and a massive drive to adopt modern generating technology.

The US is often singled out because of a dogmatic refusal to accept reality, and policies that actively increase emissions.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#260

Post by EastToWest »

adventured wrote: post #212
okal wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. The US is responsible for 14% of emissions, which is unconscionable for a country that only holds ~4.5% of the world's population. You're actually doing quite horribly on a per-capita basis. China is doing far better than the US on a per-capita count.

That is solely because 1/3 of China's population is still living extremely impoverished lives that are equivalent to third world standards. They have 400-500 million people that are still among the poorest on earth. I can't imagine how you think that's an accomplishment that deserves recognition. Their low per capita pollution output due to extreme poverty, is not due to stellar environmental policies by China.

I just want to point out that, as of 2012, there was only 6.5% of the population in China living in poverty according to World Bank.

http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/china/overview#3

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