Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran • Hacker News Board

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#211

Post by sadris » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #46

smashcash wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that some boogiemen are not as terrible as portrayed, or that we shouldn't put too much effort to go after them, does not imply that all boogiemen are actually nice.

There's the fact that nobody appointed them the global cops in charge of boogiemen. There's also the fact that more often than not, they act based on internal power plays and national interests of its own, and not for some "greater good". There's also the fact that they have fucked up tons of countries with their interventions -- 4 countries in the last 20 years ago, turning relatively stable regimes into hell-holes…

Actually the world appointed them overlords in the Bretton Woods agreement.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#212

Post by adventured » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

okal wrote: post #89

jdowongns wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, except that the US has reduced emissions more than any other country and is highly competitive on a per-capita percentage basis.

Not true. The US is responsible for 14% of emissions, which is unconscionable for a country that only holds ~4.5% of the world's population. You're actually doing quite horribly on a per-capita basis. China is doing far better than the US on a per-capita count.

That is solely because 1/3 of China's population is still living extremely impoverished lives that are equivalent to third world standards. They have 400-500 million people that are still among the poorest on earth. I can't imagine how you think that's an accomplishment that deserves recognition. Their low per capita pollution output due to extreme poverty, is not due to stellar environmental policies by China.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#213

Post by beezly » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 4:38 PM UTC

"Washington says that, although Iran has met the terms, the accord was too generous, failing to rein in Iran’s ballistic missile program or curb its regional meddling." - oh the irony!

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#214

Post by nickik » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 4:38 PM UTC

danra wrote: post #58

nkozyra wrote: post #5

Good. I don't know how much longer Americans are going to buy the boogiemen we keep getting fed. Sovereign nations under the the U.S.' thumb, not being able to control their own destiny only works so long as we're complacent. I sense we're growing tired of war for war's sake, leery of ideological battles built for future blowback down the road. We see enough people profiting from these wars to wonder how much global…

> I hope we stop buying in. When a politician tells us a country is evil, we need to start asking for receipts. Well, there’s the minor issue of Iran’s totalitarian regime consistently announcing their intent to destroy Israel and devestate the U.S.A, and taking actual steps to support the same. I am Israeli and completely left-wing by the way, and believe there are many steps both Israel and the U.S. could take to m…

Israel was the country that convinced the US to refuse to reintegrate Iran after the 1991 war. Clinton adopted the absurd (and unprecedented) policy of dual containment where both ME powers were consistently suppressed and isolated.

Israel did this because they understood that once Iraq was gone, Iran was their direct geopolitical rival before that Israel and Iran (even Post-Revolution) were all buddy buddy.

The fact is, Iran is a country compliant with international nuclear guidelines and agreements, to a stronger extend then literally every other country in the world. Israel is a rouge state that stole nuclear secrets and built nuclear weapons.

The US supporting Israel against Iran by claiming the crimes that everybody knows Israel has actually perpetrated.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#215

Post by sadris » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

chvid wrote: post #103

I don't understand how that would prevent the US from sanctioning those banks and companies that trades with Iran? Regardless if they traded through the described mechanism.

Correct. The Secretary of State has already said this. You can do business with America. Or do business with Iran. But you can't do business with both.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#216

Post by nickik » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

gadders wrote: post #115

nkozyra wrote: post #5

Good. I don't know how much longer Americans are going to buy the boogiemen we keep getting fed. Sovereign nations under the the U.S.' thumb, not being able to control their own destiny only works so long as we're complacent. I sense we're growing tired of war for war's sake, leery of ideological battles built for future blowback down the road. We see enough people profiting from these wars to wonder how much global…

Iran is a radical islamic theocracy that hangs gay people and exports terrorism to the rest of the Middle East in the form of Hamas and Hezbollah. They also want to wipe Israel from the map and are trying to build nuclear weapons. We need more sanctions, not less.

Your first sentence is correct.

The second is pretty much false. Iran has never tried to build nuclear weapons. Iran has been and always was perfectly in accordance with international law.

If you want to sanction Iran for the reason giving in your first line, then you must sanction literally every single ally the US has in the Middle East.

Please stop claiming that this is some moral position that the US holds.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#217

Post by bogomipz » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

AsyncAwait wrote: post #169

bogomipz wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone accusing others of being "propagandized out of your mind" you seem rather uninformed. >"The current Iranian regime is there BECAUSE of Western meddling, it would not exist otherwise." The original Iranian Revolution was a reaction to Western meddling and policies. The current regime is there because of the consolidation of power of the theocracy. The executive branch is actually subordinate to the Supreme…

> The original Iranian Revolution was a reaction to Western meddling and policies. The current regime is there because... The current regime is there precisely as a result of the Iranian Revolution. > Please provide a single citation for this statistic. This is an absurd statement. http://global-politics.eu/military-assistance-73-percent-wor... I guess I was off by 2%, it's 73% of the world's dictatorships. > The US…

>"The current regime is there precisely as a result of the Iranian Revolution"

So you are defending you assertion by simply repeating it?

You show a complete lack of of understanding of the power structure of Iran and the history of the revolution. Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini was appointed to be Supreme Leader after the Iranian Revolution. He used the position to consolidate power and shape the judiciary. There current regime is a reflection of this massive consolidation of power and influence. This has continued with Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. These have been the only two Supreme Leaders since 1979. The current regime is a reflection of their outsized control, influence and policy over the country. The current regime has very little to do with the ideals of the 1979 revolution and original referendum.

You link is laughable - Vietnam, Thailand, Jordan, Afghanistan, Ethiopia are all listed in that chart and none of them are dictatorships. Did you bother to look at the provenance of this? Here:

>"About the author: Rich Whitney is an attorney, actor, radio commentator and disk jockey, Illinois Green Party activist and former Green Party candidate for governor.

>"Origins of images: Facebook, Twitter, Wikimedia, Wikipedia, Flickr, Google, Imageinjection & Pinterest."

So an attorney, actor, radio commentator and disk jockey compiled some images from social media and "the internet." Brilliant. Perhaps you might read more critically.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#218

Post by AsyncAwait » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

strictnein wrote: post #184

AsyncAwait wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The original Iranian Revolution was a reaction to Western meddling and policies. The current regime is there because... The current regime is there precisely as a result of the Iranian Revolution. > Please provide a single citation for this statistic. This is an absurd statement. http://global-politics.eu/military-assistance-73-percent-wor... I guess I was off by 2%, it's 73% of the world's dictatorships. > The US…

Nice list. It's good to know that selling a country $29k in goods now equates to "supporting a dictatorship". And written by an expert in the field: > "Rich Whitney is an attorney, actor, radio commentator and disk jockey, Illinois Green Party activist and former Green Party candidate for governor." The idea that the US is wanting to overthrow Venezuela for oil is just silly. They output roughly what North Dakota doe…

> It's good to know that selling a country $29k in goods now equates to "supporting a dictatorship".

It's not just some 'goods', it's military equipment.

Also, you purposely picked a country with a low volume, when there are countless others with a much higher one on the list, including the likes of Egypt, Saudi Ariabia, the UAE etc.

This is based on the Freedom House report, it's not some data that the author of the piece made up.

> The idea that the US is wanting to overthrow Venezuela for oil is just silly. They output roughly what North Dakota does.

I already said it has little to do with the output, yet you ignore it because it does not fit with your narrative.

Also, how then do you explain the U.S. backed 2002 coup attempt, when Chavez was massively popular at the time?

Or are you trying to claim that the U.S. does not in fact 'meddle' in Latin America?

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#219

Post by Zenst » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 4:45 PM UTC

wolco wrote: post #152

sitkack wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Canada reflects the emission levels of rich Americans. Canada is no roll model on carbon emission.

Canada is a huge frozen country most of the year. Comparing warmer countries to Canada doesn't make sense emission wise.

Does currently, but that's climate shift for you.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#220

Post by blackbrokkoli » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 4:46 PM UTC

y04nn wrote: post #69

Thinking that an embargo is going to solve the problem is misleading and it's only going to make things worst. The population is going to confort themselves that the occidental nations are evil, you give valid arguments to the dictatorial power, only the population is going to suffer. Conversely opening the market creates bounds between countries and opens the population's mind that will impose the democracy by itsel…

What is "the problem"?

If you say the embargo solves the problem of fueling a boogeyman enemy to rationalize military spending and fuel nationalism, then I would say it's a quite elegant solution.