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Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

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Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#251

Post by wwweston »

whatshisface wrote: post #216
closetohome wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so I'm clear here, you're proposing a conspiracy theory where Amazon, the DHS, and The Pentagon are in collusion to collect and transcribe audio from Amazon Echos -- in such a way that none of the many people who have hacked and extensively reverse-engineered them would be able to tell? I can't find any holes in that theory.

The people who have "hacked and reverse engineered" the Echos don't have access to what happens on the server side. We are facing a situation of either trusting or not trusting, because verification isn't possible. There should be a word for believing that someone is working for your interests even though you have no reason to, as a counterpart to "conspiracy theory" which implies that you believe that a group is wor…

"Credulous" is the boring existing term, I think.

I might enjoy "barnummark" or "candidable."

Some might use the term "optimist" in this sense. Whether it's fair or unfair to call them cynics is left as an exercise for the reader.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#252

Post by saulrh »

dlandis wrote: post #219
Kiro wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You totally underestimate the utility. Getting a voice assistant was life-changing for me. GPS comes nowhere close.

> Getting a voice assistant was life-changing for me Can you expand on that? In what way?

Compare the workflows for leaving a reminder or note. Before:

    * Find phone/computer
    * Unlock
    * Locate self in interface and navigate to application selector
    * Invoke note-taking or reminder app
    * Type in note or reminder
    * Navigate through tagging/scheduling interface
    * Commit note/reminder
Or:

    * Locate notebook
    * Locate writing utensil
    * Open notebook to current page
    * Write note
    * Remember to check notebook every thirty minutes for the rest of your life
After:

    * Be in shouting distance of phone or assistant base station
    * "Okay Google/Alexa, note to self/set a reminder for eight pm: "
For most people the "before" is a minor inconvenience. These people don't really need organizational tools anyway. For people with memory problems the "before" is a rock wall that renders the vast majority of organizational technology functionally useless. You know how sometimes you walk into a room and realize you have no idea why you needed to be in the room? Or how thirty seconds spent answering email can end with all the the eggs you were juggling crashing to the floor and it takes you half an hour to get back "in the zone"? Imagine that, but it happens at the drop of a hat, five times an hour, in the time it takes you to say good morning to someone... or because you had to context-switch to execute the motion to unlock your phone.

There are lives that can be changed by organizational technology. But exactly this population was the one least well-served by classical note-taking and reminder apps. That "before" workflow was the six-inch drop at the end of the wheelchair ramp [1]. Voice assistants are a game-changer.

[1]: https://i.redd.it/x5qhwm2blyl01.jpg

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#253

Post by ams6110 »

jedberg wrote: post #82
LinuxBender wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Nobody can prove that. It's always listening and you have to assume always recording and transmitting. 2) My phone is a $12 throw away that speaks voice and sms (text). 3) Loose lips sink ships.

> Nobody can prove that. You guys are way to paranoid. They're a public company and they are constantly under audit. They have explicitly stated in their white papers that the device has two computers, one that just listens for the "Alexa" keyword that activates the other one for signal processing. Do you really think they would lie on those white papers? The government would be so far up their ass with fines it woul…

It's not paranoia if you're right.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#254

Post by cc439 »

y04nn wrote: post #74
LinuxBender wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which nobody can do. It is encrypted and unless the device accept invalid certs, they can queue up, compress, batch upload any data they want. They control the security, not the end-luser.

Encrypted or not, an audio stream should not be difficult to identify.

What if they convert speech to text like the American intel agencies do as proved by the Snowden and Vault 7 leaks?

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#255

Post by vertexFarm »

madrox wrote: post #104

I've never seen a demographic breakdown of HN, but I'm 37 years old. I'm definitely not the oldest guy here, but I see history repeat itself regularly. I remember when people used location tracking as a reason to not own a cell phone. I'm talking about flip phones, mind you, not even iPhones with GPS receivers. I recall the bulk of complaints in that vein died down around the time Google Maps for phones came out. If…

Right?? I feel like I'm losing my mind sometimes with how lax people have gotten with cybersecurity or even the most basic concepts of digital hygiene / common sense internet practices. In the nineties giving any information out online was idiocy. And remember refuseniks? People who just refused to own a phone based on the privacy and social ramifications of always carrying around a sophisticated bug that would make CIA engineers during the cold war spontaneously orgasm?

It's been a slow boil since then; people accept things today on a regular basis that would have caused riots just a couple decades ago. And I get it, there's lots of important and valid improvements to life thanks to smartphones and the modern internet. But I'm not talking about the way things are now. I'm talking about the way things will be soon. Very soon. Like the next 10-20 years up until we all die in the climate wars or whatever, hopefully not but that's a different story I guess.

People were worried about cell phones back when you had to pull up the antenna and checking your email was an incredibly exotic feat of mobile technology. They had no idea about the kind of big data extrapolations that would soon become possible. If they did, they would have been far, far more worried.

Digital assistants, ubiquitous computing, "smart" cities which keep tabs on your life better than you do and other advances in mobile tech are going to be the same way. Those ramifications we can think about now are only the very tip of the iceberg. Completely unexpected uses and exploitations are going to appear out of nowhere like black swans as the years unfold. We can't make informed decisions about what we're doing to our humanity because we really have no idea. This has always been the case with industrialized society, true. But it's happening faster and more dramatically each time.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#256

Post by summadat »

Kiro wrote: post #212
accnumnplus1 wrote: post #12

This is just facebook all over again. Why can't people see trouble-tech? I never used facebook and won't ever use an alexa, nor whatever google's thing is.

It's the best thing I've ever bought. Whatever bad thing can happen is still worth it. It's a trade-off I'm actively choosing.

What if a trade-off was that your Echo was actively recording and indexing every single word you've said within its range?

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#257

Post by summadat »

matte_black wrote: post #103
accnumnplus1 wrote: post #12

This is just facebook all over again. Why can't people see trouble-tech? I never used facebook and won't ever use an alexa, nor whatever google's thing is.

The thing is that for most people avoiding this kind of tech and platforms is unlikely to have any kind of payoff for them. Life is too short. Most peoples lives are as simple as going to school and work, raising a family, taking vacations, paying bills, and then passing away. There will never be a moment where they can say “ Yes! My avoidance of Facebook and Alexa for all my life has finally paid off! Hahaha! ” The…

Ok, can I see your credit card statements for the last 5 years? Can I listen to all of your phone conversations? Can I watch you shower and use the bathroom? I mean, you sound like an average person with nothing to hide...../s

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#258

Post by matte_black »

bzbarsky wrote: post #158
matte_black wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that for most people avoiding this kind of tech and platforms is unlikely to have any kind of payoff for them. Life is too short. Most peoples lives are as simple as going to school and work, raising a family, taking vacations, paying bills, and then passing away. There will never be a moment where they can say “ Yes! My avoidance of Facebook and Alexa for all my life has finally paid off! Hahaha! ” The…

Your list is missing "pro-democracy advocates", "Muslims", "Christians", "Jews", "atheists", "women who want an abortion", "people trying to escape an abusive relationship", "people with interesting medical conditions", etc, depending on location. Please don't pretend that both "only criminals have something to hide" and "criminals are by definition bad people" are true statements. Neither is true.

If you live under a government where those examples are a reason to hide, then in the eyes of that government you are technically a criminal. Doesn’t describe my government.

Even under the most oppressive governments though, there will still be a sizable majority that doesn’t have anything to hide and can feel secure using most technology, and they’ll be fine.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#259

Post by madrox »

lisper wrote: post #207
madrox wrote: post #104

I've never seen a demographic breakdown of HN, but I'm 37 years old. I'm definitely not the oldest guy here, but I see history repeat itself regularly. I remember when people used location tracking as a reason to not own a cell phone. I'm talking about flip phones, mind you, not even iPhones with GPS receivers. I recall the bulk of complaints in that vein died down around the time Google Maps for phones came out. If…

There's a big difference: having a GPS in my phone means I never have to worry about buying or carrying a map with me ever again, at the cost of potentially revealing my location to someone who I'd rather not know it. Having a voice assistant means I don't have to spend a few seconds typing, at the cost of having everything I say potentially overheard by someone who I'd rather didn't hear it. By my quality metric, th…

I’m sympathetic to this view. I’m not sure it will stay that way. There was a time where internet access on your phone was an extravagance. It would be difficult to appreciate the utility before living with it. If what we are talking about is a difference in perceived utility, I’m not sure how big of a difference that really is.

Utility of VAs are going up. Comfort with them is a normative thing, and history tends to point to the norms changing.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#260

Post by whatshisface »

wwweston wrote: post #251
whatshisface wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who have "hacked and reverse engineered" the Echos don't have access to what happens on the server side. We are facing a situation of either trusting or not trusting, because verification isn't possible. There should be a word for believing that someone is working for your interests even though you have no reason to, as a counterpart to "conspiracy theory" which implies that you believe that a group is wor…

"Credulous" is the boring existing term, I think. I might enjoy "barnummark" or "candidable." Some might use the term "optimist" in this sense. Whether it's fair or unfair to call them cynics is left as an exercise for the reader.

None of those words have the same bite, in that they don't imply the belief is unfounded and probably wrong.
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