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NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

fox5ny.com

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Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#251

Post by zjaffee »

CydeWeys wrote: post #171
marricks wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t NYC have a housing crisis already? I’m not sure they need a worse one coupled with the gentrifying forces of thousands of tech employees moving in. $1.5 billion in housing or just really anything to help people who already live there is what should happen.

No, NYC doesn't have a housing crisis. Rents are certainly higher in NYC than the average for the nation, but there are plenty of relatively affordable areas within an hour's commute of downtown, and the only transportation cost you'd pay is $116.50/month for a MetroCard. Subtract out all the substantial costs of paying for an automobile and NYC can even compare favorably in cost of living to some other cities that h…

NYC has absolutely just as much of a NIMBY problem as other American cities it's just the government at large cares less and people don't worry about traffic in the same way suburban areas being upzoned do. 25% of manhattan has some type of historic designation around it. Additionally, during the same period where the brooklyn and queens waterfront boomed with construction due to targeted rezoning, huge swaths of manhattan were downzoned from hells kitchen to the majority of the east and west village.

Additionally, there are hundreds of thousands of people who are rent burdened in New York, even in those places with so called cheap rent such as within south bronx.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#252

Post by Spooky23 »

nerdponx wrote: post #153
Spooky23 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC needs more diversity outside of finance. This potentially puts NYC on top for retail again. I think incentives and payments for this purpose is a meh idea, it if you’re going to do it, bet on a winner.

Imagine giving $48,000 to 25,000 small business owners over 10 years instead.

You can to some extent. The compliance requirements are daunting for many businesses.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#253

Post by longerthoughts »

rorykoehler wrote: post #230
vdnkh wrote: post #32

1) Incentives are not given up front. They are given proportional to the results Amazon has achieved. Amazon must make a report each year detailing their progress before any award is given. 2) The city-level incentives are available to any business. State-level incentives (I think 300m) are not. 3) Amazon has pledged to invest in the local community as part of the deal. There are plans for an elementary school and te…

3) why is this left to Amazon or am I misunderstanding how this is managed?

They're using a Payment in Lieu of Tax (PILOT) program [0]. I've been trying to understand why these programs exist for corporations but having trouble finding definitive answers. My hunch is that it's a marketing trick to help people stomach the tax breaks and go "oh, well at least they're building a school". Possible that it also allows for legal negotiation of terms like amount and payment schedule that can't be applied directly to property taxes.

[0] https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/amazon-selects-new...

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#254

Post by zjaffee »

throw2016 wrote: post #243
chiefalchemist wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gov's job is to govern. Period. How about we let it get that right before it starts branching off into things it's has little or no expertise in. Again. The gov created the housing bubble __and__ the student loan bubble. I don't say they should be in the job buying biz. __The Gov__ has said that. Whether you're listening or not is up to you.

Neoliberalism, Milton Friedman and the free market crowd have been demonizing government for decades now and successfully lobbied for the removal of regulations since the 80s leading to the housing bubble, education loans and exploding tuition costs, buybacks and rampant financialization. This banking crisis, fraud, education loan bubble is the direct result of 30 years of neoliberal free market policies. Yet instead…

What if I told you that any government under capitalism will ultimately always end up as a plutocracy, a government by the rich for the rich is fundamentally different than one by the working class for the working class, although the later has been proven difficult to maintain under democratic systems at large.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#255

Post by longerthoughts »

jowiar wrote: post #160
vdnkh wrote: post #32

1) Incentives are not given up front. They are given proportional to the results Amazon has achieved. Amazon must make a report each year detailing their progress before any award is given. 2) The city-level incentives are available to any business. State-level incentives (I think 300m) are not. 3) Amazon has pledged to invest in the local community as part of the deal. There are plans for an elementary school and te…

Re: 3/5. We already have ways to turn corporate money into community services. They're called taxes. I'd much rather we as as a community take Amazon's money and build our own schools rather than have Amazon build an Amazon Education Facility and thank them for their time.

Yes. I've been trying very hard to figure out what purpose it serves aside from good PR. On the bright side, I suspect Amazon's standard for facilities they're willing to associate with their brand is higher than that of the NY government.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#256

Post by dwaltrip »

endtime wrote: post #192
ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still not free market though.

How is not free market for polities to compete for attractive employers?

Application of tax policy does not seem like a "market" that local governments should "compete" in.

I understand this does happen internationally, between nations. Not that it is a good thing, but seems very difficult to stop. However, at first glance, it seems absurd to me to allow this to occur within a single nation, between the different sub-localities. How does this benefit the US as a whole?

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#257

Post by brown9-2 »

illumin8 wrote: post #250
CPLX wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ. New York City doesn't have a problem attracting jobs. Like not even a little bit. The idea that this is actually incremental revenue for the city is extremely debatable. New York City is a really big place. Midtown is the largest central business district in the country, and Lower Manhattan is the third largest, after Chicago. There are 1,700,000 jobs in Manhattan alone and 3,900,000 in New York City…

This is not a travesty. This is cementing NYC as the place to go on the east coast if you want to work in tech, and helping to diversify the NYC economy away from being so heavily dependent on finance. Wouldn't it be nice if your options for working in tech didn't consist of a handful of large banks and hedge funds?

What you describe is already the status quo in NYC. Every large tech company is already here and has been.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#258

Post by brown9-2 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #134
CPLX wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ. New York City doesn't have a problem attracting jobs. Like not even a little bit. The idea that this is actually incremental revenue for the city is extremely debatable. New York City is a really big place. Midtown is the largest central business district in the country, and Lower Manhattan is the third largest, after Chicago. There are 1,700,000 jobs in Manhattan alone and 3,900,000 in New York City…

NYC needs more diversity outside of finance. This potentially puts NYC on top for retail again. I think incentives and payments for this purpose is a meh idea, it if you’re going to do it, bet on a winner.

retail of what?

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#259

Post by shawn »

dang wrote: post #217
jdoliner wrote: post #213

The article is very disingenuous about this being a "cost" to tax payers. It's a tax break, it's not extra money that's going to be added to NY's tax bill, it's taxes that Amazon theoretically would have had to pay if they decided to build their offices there and didn't have the tax break. There are some other real costs to tax payers in the form of subsidies, but they're much smaller than the 1.5 billion figure quot…

Ok, we replaced "taxpayers to pay" with "state tax break" above.

My replies countering your arguments still are not vouched. Do you consider your position so weak that it can’t withstand a debate?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18454702

(I would ask the community to please vouch them, but you’ve made it clear that you will vouch “the good ones,” not the community.)

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#260

Post by frutiger »

Spooky23 wrote: post #134
CPLX wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ. New York City doesn't have a problem attracting jobs. Like not even a little bit. The idea that this is actually incremental revenue for the city is extremely debatable. New York City is a really big place. Midtown is the largest central business district in the country, and Lower Manhattan is the third largest, after Chicago. There are 1,700,000 jobs in Manhattan alone and 3,900,000 in New York City…

NYC needs more diversity outside of finance. This potentially puts NYC on top for retail again. I think incentives and payments for this purpose is a meh idea, it if you’re going to do it, bet on a winner.

> NYC needs more diversity outside of finance.

The beauty of NYC is that it is not singularly focused like SF is. Media, Fashion, Finance, Tech all call NYC their home.

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