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Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

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Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conveniently cities have already done a huge amount of the legwork for enabling charging at street parking thanks to street lights. It will be expensive no doubt, but so was converting gas street lights to light bulbs.

Cars draw a lot of power vs electric lamps.

Street lights are currently changing from 250-1000 watt HIDs to LEDs, so they used a lot of power in the past and not much in the future.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#252
post #237
post #45

I think that electric car adoption is going to have similar characteristics to digital cameras. I remember playing with an early digital camera and seeing a poor replacement for film, but with obvious benefits. Back then it was common to hear "serious" photographers pooh-poohing digital, and how it's many drawbacks would mean it would remain niche, and never replace film. It didn't take long and digial cameras improv…

The one thing that is really different is that digital cameras didn’t required a huge network of infrastructure to succeed. That’s unfortunately where you’re analogy breaks down

It may be different but it doesn't mean that it's impossible to achieve. Building the EV infrastruture is relatively cheap (compared to say building a gas-powered or hydrogen infrastructure). Tesla has already built its own (not perfect, but "good enough"), and the other car makers have joined alliances to build their own. Also new companies have appeared whose sole reason to exist is to build such infrastructures. Plus, power companies are getting in on the action, too, finally realizing that this could be big business for them in the future.

The EV infrastructure should be mostly complete by 2025. Most car makers won't start invading the market with EVs until 2023, or so anyway.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#253
post #202
post #45

I think that electric car adoption is going to have similar characteristics to digital cameras. I remember playing with an early digital camera and seeing a poor replacement for film, but with obvious benefits. Back then it was common to hear "serious" photographers pooh-poohing digital, and how it's many drawbacks would mean it would remain niche, and never replace film. It didn't take long and digial cameras improv…

Serious question: what are the "obvious benefits" (from the consumer perspective)? I can just think of insane acceleration (which is irrelevant for actual use).

About 4x cheaper to charge/fill up, and about 3x less maintenance costs.

Plus all the "nice" features of EVs like rapid acceleration, no noise, feeling super-modern/futuristic, etc.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying that for a very long time, and every decade or two someone bets real money and loses horribly. I think the last time was Kamen thinking the Segway would change human transportation forever. Such visionaries tend to conveniently forget people who have families with kids, the price, and the fact that if their device can’t totally replace a car then it’s just an added expense many can’t afford.

Out where I live, the electric bike is as common as a regular bike. When I first saw one, people said it was a useless half measure - if you don't want to peddle, you would take the car. The has proven wrong, and as time goes by, the reverse happens - it replaces the car. You should realize that many people who buy these scooters and electric bikes are doing so to replace the bike, not the car. But then over time it…

Electric bikes are a huge improvement over standard bikes, and no improvement at all over a car for a significant number of use cases. They’re also no more useful than a bike in places where roads are poorly maintained, rain and snow are frequent, or no bike lanes exist. They’re not useful for taking kids to school, or doing significant errands. They are amazing for a single person to get around cheaply without killing themselves on every hill, and probably a godsend in SV. Most of the world doesn’t have SV’s weather though, and a lot of people have kids.

Electric bikes and scooters are very cool, but they’re no more a solution to the car in most cases than a motorcycle or Segway. They do nothing for people with long commutes, or who live in spread-out suburbs. No one is trading in their minivan for a moped.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#255
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Range will solve this issue. For 18 months I charged my Tesla at Whole Foods, Target, etc, at a paltry 20mph charge rate. When my commute was 40+ miles round trip, that meant I had to charge a couple of times a week for multiple hours. Very frustrating. But when I got my weekly miles under my max range (180 miles) and started using a near-ish high-speed charger, I'd just catch a movie once a week, and my car would be…

My Camry Hybrid can have 500+ miles of range recharged in a few minutes. That's the "killer app" that electric has to beat, one way or another. Spending multiple hours recharging is like driving 30mph on the freeway.

The killer app of EVs with access to home chargers (even slow ones) is that going somewhere else to fill up the car will be a rare occurrence. UK stats show EVs only charge outside home or work ~7% of the time. For a minority of people, regular fast charging will be a must but vast majority of people will just stop going else where to fill up their cars.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#256
post #202
post #45

I think that electric car adoption is going to have similar characteristics to digital cameras. I remember playing with an early digital camera and seeing a poor replacement for film, but with obvious benefits. Back then it was common to hear "serious" photographers pooh-poohing digital, and how it's many drawbacks would mean it would remain niche, and never replace film. It didn't take long and digial cameras improv…

Serious question: what are the "obvious benefits" (from the consumer perspective)? I can just think of insane acceleration (which is irrelevant for actual use).

Lower maintenance costs, less mechanical parts, more safe because there are more crumpling zones, less noise and cleaner because there are no emissions.

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#257

It is already coming suddenly in China. Beijing has a lottery for new car license plates for ICE cars, and the quota goes down each year. Not for electrics. More than half of new cars in Beijing are electric. Next, Guangzhou. Shenzhen is already all electric buses.

> More than half of new cars in Beijing are electric.

Do you have a link for that?

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#258
post #68

They neglected a huge part of the coming electric vehicle picture: lightweight, slow-speed electric vehicles. Almost 60% of US car trips are 5 miles or shorter. (2017 ref: https://nhts.ornl.gov/tables09/ae/work/Job63697.html , 2009 ref: https://nhts.ornl.gov/tables09/fatcat/2009/vt_TRPMILES.html ) Scooters, e-bikes, and electric cargo bikes (not to mention the human-powered versions!) will soak up an enormous portion…

I don't think so. A car is the most outwardly visible status/everything symbol you have. This is important, especially for men without a family. They're not going to want to be seen in a Renault Zoe or a scooter.

A Tesla isn't a status symbol?

Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly

#259
post #45

I think that electric car adoption is going to have similar characteristics to digital cameras. I remember playing with an early digital camera and seeing a poor replacement for film, but with obvious benefits. Back then it was common to hear "serious" photographers pooh-poohing digital, and how it's many drawbacks would mean it would remain niche, and never replace film. It didn't take long and digial cameras improv…

> "I live in an apartment, I can't charge one, on the street" I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I still can't fathom how electric cars are going to make more than a dent in NYC where most cars are stored streetside.

In the UK, every new street light will double as an EV charger.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/08/every-new-ho...

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