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Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

nytimes.com

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Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#251

Post by code_duck »

Houshalter wrote: post #240
code_duck wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t half of smokers die of heart disease, not lung disease? Vaping has no effect on that - it might be even delivering more nicotine and jolting the heart more than a normal cigarette. Not sure how much heart damage comes from the stimulant decreasing blood oxygen and how much is from lung damage decreasing blood oxygen, and so forth, but it seems likely vaping is bad for your heart.

Yes, but what is the evidence it's the nicotine that's damaging the heart? The heart is part of your respiratory system. Inhaling regular wood smoke damages your heart: https://samharris.org/the-fireplace-delusion/ >There is no amount of wood smoke that is good to breathe. It is at least as bad for you as cigarette smoke, and probably much worse. (One study found it to be 30 times more potent a carcinogen.) The smoke…

I agree smoking could harm your heart in other ways. However all stimulants, including caffeine, pseudoephedrine, cocaine and amphetamines, constrict blood vessels that deliver blood to your heart, and nicotine is a stimulant with vasoconstrictive action. I’m not a medical professional but i’m sure this has been researched and reported on since it is where I got the notion.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#252

Post by hapless »

mistermann wrote: post #250
hapless wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nichrome heating elements in vapes have been proven to leach considerable amounts of manganese and chromium into your vape fluid and vapor. https://www.jhsph.edu/news/news-releases/2017/study-toxic-me...

It's almost always easy to spot deliberate cherry picking and dishonest statistics in order to come to an alarmist conclusion. "For their study, the researchers selected five leading brands of so-called first generation e-cigarettes, which are referred to as cig-a-likes because they resemble traditional cigarettes. (Newer ones look like small cassette recorders with a mouthpiece. In the newer devices the liquid is ad…

71% of the market is "almost no one" ?

Who do you expect to investigate tobacco products, if not the institute of tobacco control at America's #1 medical college?

edit: also, if your "high power mod" still uses a nichrome heating element, you will have the same problems. Chemistry is chemistry.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#253

Post by dang »

ebbv wrote: post #79
truculation wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Quitting is hard and a lot of people fail so .. don't quit." No, I asked: what should vaping be replaced with?

Oh my god are you serious with this? I’m gonna guess from the quality of this exchange you vape.

Would you please do a better job of following the site guidelines? You frequently either cross the line or straddle it. By doing this, you damage the community in its most vulnerable place. I'm sure you wouldn't do that with other shared resources, and since you use HN, we'd appreciate your helping to take care of it as well, even when other comments are annoying, wrong, or absurd. Especially then.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#254

Post by portofcall »

alecco wrote: post #188
portofcall wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re right that might explain why this article was just flagged so much it went from near the top of the front page, to near the bottom of the second. Edit now the third page. 8 min later, 4th page.

And we got downvoted to hell. Yeah, this was by "fans" alone.

Credit to the mods who brought it back to the front page though.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#255

Post by mistermann »

hapless wrote: post #252
mistermann wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost always easy to spot deliberate cherry picking and dishonest statistics in order to come to an alarmist conclusion. "For their study, the researchers selected five leading brands of so-called first generation e-cigarettes, which are referred to as cig-a-likes because they resemble traditional cigarettes. (Newer ones look like small cassette recorders with a mouthpiece. In the newer devices the liquid is ad…

71% of the market is "almost no one" ? Who do you expect to investigate tobacco products, if not the institute of tobacco control at America's #1 medical college? edit: also, if your "high power mod" still uses a nichrome heating element, you will have the same problems. Chemistry is chemistry.

> 71% of the market is "almost no one" ?

71% of the market of product sold in big-box retail stores, convenience stores and gas stations, as well as online. That market is perhaps 10% (that's being generous) of the overall ecig market, because those tiny things suck.

I'm less worried about metal leeching in higher end mods, the juice doesn't sit for months on end with significant surface area touching metal as the juice is typically vaped in That said, there is still an element of unknown risk, both with the metals used, as well as the wicking materials, but it seems reasonable to expect high end products where they have better margins and more concern with reputation to put much more emphasis on safety and quality.

EDIT:

I think I will have to eat some crow, after doing some googling it seems there are in fact thorough real studies being performed on real world equipment:

https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/ehp2175/

I mostly just skimmed this article, figuring out whether these detected levels are beyond what is considered "safe" or how they compare to both regular cigarettes and background environmental exposure I suppose would be nice to know, but based on this article I am going to change my stance to believe that yes, in fact I am exposing myself to heavy metals even when using a high end mod. I think I'm going to do some more research later as I would expect this report would have gotten a fair amount of publicity in the enthusiast community, will be interesting to see how honest their reaction is to this.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#256

Post by Houshalter »

code_duck wrote: post #251
Houshalter wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but what is the evidence it's the nicotine that's damaging the heart? The heart is part of your respiratory system. Inhaling regular wood smoke damages your heart: https://samharris.org/the-fireplace-delusion/ >There is no amount of wood smoke that is good to breathe. It is at least as bad for you as cigarette smoke, and probably much worse. (One study found it to be 30 times more potent a carcinogen.) The smoke…

I agree smoking could harm your heart in other ways. However all stimulants, including caffeine, pseudoephedrine, cocaine and amphetamines, constrict blood vessels that deliver blood to your heart, and nicotine is a stimulant with vasoconstrictive action. I’m not a medical professional but i’m sure this has been researched and reported on since it is where I got the notion.

As far as I know caffeine isn't associated with heart disease. AT least not in the brief googling I did.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#257

Post by code_duck »

Houshalter wrote: post #256
code_duck wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree smoking could harm your heart in other ways. However all stimulants, including caffeine, pseudoephedrine, cocaine and amphetamines, constrict blood vessels that deliver blood to your heart, and nicotine is a stimulant with vasoconstrictive action. I’m not a medical professional but i’m sure this has been researched and reported on since it is where I got the notion.

As far as I know caffeine isn't associated with heart disease. AT least not in the brief googling I did.

From what I can find, research has mixed results. Other things about coffee may mediate that effect (antioxidants). I would bet if you were smoking pure caffine, it would be less healthy for your heart than drinking coffee.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#258

Post by LordKano »

jfoutz wrote: post #210
LordKano wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I smoked for about 18 years and I made the switch to vaping a few years ago. I haven't completely given up tobacco smoking but I have cut back tremendously. I tried to quit several times, I tried the gum, the patches, Chantix and cold turkey. None of them allowed me to successfully quit. Vaping was good enough to temper the nicotine cravings enough that I could otherwise function without regular smoking. I have cut b…

Three weeks no tobacco. Stepping down nicotine today. I don’t like vaping much. But it has made it much easier to ramp down. I still want a cigarette every once in a while, but I think that’s going to pass in the next month or two. At least enough for me to quit the vape as well. I’d never recommend one to a nonsmoker. But, for me, it has been an effective way out of a vice. If anyone wants out, it has been working f…

I've been vaping for 4 years. I still want a cigarette sometimes but it's becoming less frequent that I feel like I need one.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#259

Post by surrogatekey »

wonderflpancake wrote: post #82

Semi-related, maybe there are some nicotine experts here that can help me: I smoked ~4 years light/social post high school. Dipped Copenhagen Pouches for ~10 years. I've tried to quite with some success with the longest streak being 2 years. It is incredibly hard and all in the mind. I found ZYN pouches last year and they have replaced my needs. It "... is a tobacco leaf-free nicotine product. The nicotine salt used…

Well done you.

In terms of recreational nicotine, Swedish snus has the most established, long term evidence base for very significantly reduced risks.

It's reasonable to expect that a product like Zyn would fare even better than Swedish snus in long term studies because of the lack of tobacco specific nitrosamines. Although Zyn doesn't have a long term, formulation specific evidence base like Swedish snus, there is good evidence for its components.

Pharmaceutical nicotine replacement therapy products like nicotine gum could be options too. Guessing you've already tried that though... but even the FDA now says NRT can be used indefinitely.

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