Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised • Hacker News Board

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#251

Post by stcredzero » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 7:47 PM UTC

Bartweiss wrote: post #196

pmarsh wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most likely due to the same troll farms that paint the narrative that SpaceX wastes tax payer money. Now who would not want a new private American company to succeed in revitalizing the industry and increasing competition. Hmm, I can think of a few. It used to be "NASA is a bloated waste of tax payer money let private Enterprise in." And now the same people who said that, have been convinced that private industry is…

> the same people who said that This part doesn't match my experience? "NASA is a waste" is, broadly, a conservative/Republican stance. Almost everyone I've seen outraged about the Tesla launch was noticeably left of the average Democrat. I don't think a narrative of "they hated the public version, now they hate the private version" holds up for the people I've seen. Granted, there's a second group on the left who ha…

"NASA is a waste" is, broadly, a conservative/Republican stance..."space exploration is a waste when people are going hungry"

It's definitely now also a Far Left talking point. Larry Wilmore basically went back to the old 60's, "Why is there poverty, and we're putting men on the moon?" There's a scene somewhere where he's telling Bill Nye to STFU about his Science. This brings to mind Phillip DeFranco's t-shirt about substituting feelings for facts.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#252

Post by pas » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 7:49 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #160

icebraining wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That number is only higher because the US has fewer broadband subscribers (per inhabitant); the denominator is smaller. The fiber penetration per 100 inhabitants is the same in both, 4%: http://www.oecd.org/sti/broadband/1.2.OECD-FixedMobileBB-201...

The US is far ahead of France on broadband in general, with average speeds 70% to 80% faster. That has been true for a very long time now. France ranks near the very bottom in Europe in percentages above 10mbps, 15mbps, and 25mbps. In the developed world, France is behind - typically far behind - nearly every nation, including Russia (a far poorer country). France's broadband situation is an embarrassment, nothing ha…

France is laughing stock also due to their ugly captive portal pay for every MAC address WiFis, oh and without an OpenVPN over WebSocket you are pretty much limited to TCP 80 and 443.

And they are slooow as shit too.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#253

Post by FireBeyond » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 7:53 PM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #217

kaennar wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how would you carry a model like that over to a place as big as the USA? Montana, Wyoming, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and just about every state that isn't on the East/West coast would have an incredibly difficult time executing this kind of plan because of the distance between communities. I'm not saying that a similar model wouldn't be easy to implement in the boroughs of New York, Boston, SV, Austin, etc., but w…

This is something Australia tried to tackle with the NBN, and I would guess that Australia is far more rural and less densely populated than the US. In Australia the solution was a mixture of fibre (FTTP then FTTP), fixed wireless, and then satellite.

That's always a misconception about Australia, as someone who has lived in both.

The NBN failed largely because of a government ideology that neutered it from FTTH to FTTN, if that.

Australia is fairly equivalent to the US for many areas with the exception of the (relatively) uninhabited interior.

If you combined a list of US and Australian cities by population, the top five Australian cities would be in the top 10:

New York (8.5M), Sydney (5.0M), Melbourne (4.7M), LA (3.9M), Chicago (2.7M), Brisbane (2.3M), Houston (2.2M), Perth (2.0M), Philadelphia (1.6M), Adelaide (1.5M).

The notion of Australia as quaint rural villages is used as an excuse by defenders of the status quo. The US is just so unique, "Oh, it's bigger", "more dense", "cities are different here", etc., et al.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#254

Post by knieveltech » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 7:53 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #222

apeace wrote: post #175

As you can surmise by reading this article, the rise of the wireless ISPs (or WISPs) is not because the wireless technology is better or drastically cheaper. It's because in so many places, the incumbents are able to prevent you from building out fiber. They simply haven't developed the weapons to destroy the WISPs yet, but unless the political climate in states/cities changes, they will. It is tough for WISPs to com…

They simply haven't developed the weapons to destroy the WISPs yet, but unless the political climate in states/cities changes, they will. Basically, authoritarianism rears its ugly head in the US once again, across corporate, national, state, and local levels. The same general kind of gaming of the system which resulted in interstates dividing white from non-white neighborhoods is now maintaining the media status quo…

It's always amusing to observe the kind of rhetorical gymnastics folks will try to employ to blame "the left" for the excesses of unregulated capitalism that the right tirelessly champions.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#255

Post by mschuster91 » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 7:54 PM UTC

pas wrote: post #252

adventured wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is far ahead of France on broadband in general, with average speeds 70% to 80% faster. That has been true for a very long time now. France ranks near the very bottom in Europe in percentages above 10mbps, 15mbps, and 25mbps. In the developed world, France is behind - typically far behind - nearly every nation, including Russia (a far poorer country). France's broadband situation is an embarrassment, nothing ha…

France is laughing stock also due to their ugly captive portal pay for every MAC address WiFis, oh and without an OpenVPN over WebSocket you are pretty much limited to TCP 80 and 443. And they are slooow as shit too.

> OpenVPN over WebSocket

Now that's interesting. Do you have some stats on CPU efficiency and overhead?

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#256

Post by AFNobody » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 7:55 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #222

apeace wrote: post #175

As you can surmise by reading this article, the rise of the wireless ISPs (or WISPs) is not because the wireless technology is better or drastically cheaper. It's because in so many places, the incumbents are able to prevent you from building out fiber. They simply haven't developed the weapons to destroy the WISPs yet, but unless the political climate in states/cities changes, they will. It is tough for WISPs to com…

They simply haven't developed the weapons to destroy the WISPs yet, but unless the political climate in states/cities changes, they will. Basically, authoritarianism rears its ugly head in the US once again, across corporate, national, state, and local levels. The same general kind of gaming of the system which resulted in interstates dividing white from non-white neighborhoods is now maintaining the media status quo…

> Basically, authoritarianism rears its ugly head in the US once again, across corporate, national, state, and local levels. The same general kind of gaming of the system which resulted in interstates dividing white from non-white neighborhoods is now maintaining the media status quo. On one side, it's the corporatism and Crony Capitalism the left traditionally complains about, now wielded by the Far Left as a non-governmental form of censorship. On the other side, it's legal and regulatory blocking of progress to maintain the status quo for old media and to use as leverage against the tech giants.

Except this is a GOP agenda or predominantly Red/GOP local governments in the South and Midwest would be resisting it. They are the ones perpetuating it and at the State level they are preempting local ISPs in a variety of ways.

You are just accusing anything involving regulations as "Leftist" without acknowledging it is the standard banners of your own party that enable it.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#257

Post by sgrove » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 7:58 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #229

seattleeng wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't weather adversely affect these, though?

What of it? If you have an advantage half the time that's better than not having it, as long as benefits exceed costs.

I think that's a benefit to the finance industry, certainly, but believe the OP may have been thinking about using microwaves for normal non-tech-saavy consumer, in which case inclement weather might be aggravating for them.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#258

Post by theptip » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 8:02 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #229

seattleeng wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't weather adversely affect these, though?

What of it? If you have an advantage half the time that's better than not having it, as long as benefits exceed costs.

That assumes that the marginal utility of more bandwidth doesn't decrease; personally I'd rather have 10Mb all the time, than an average of 10Mb that is sometimes 1Gb and sometimes 0.1Mb.

If you can't stream Netflix when it's raining heavily outside, that's a big problem.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#259

Post by axaxs » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 8:02 PM UTC

FussyZeus wrote: post #161

axaxs wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I absolutely agree with you, that setup would have been untenable. I had an ATT line hanging about 6 feet off the ground(in Louisville, pole neighborhood). Took ATT multiple calls and visits, a total process of about a month, to adjust that one line on one pole. Now imagine a citywide rollout.

Is that because of legitimate difficulty in the work being done, or because ATT is completely bureaucratically incompetent? I'm all for having a set of processes and procedures in place, especially for an entity as large as ATT, but even by the standards of telecos their internal workings are a Franz Kafka nightmare.

the latter. I had trouble even reaching them because I'm not an ATT customer. I tried emailing random contacts I could find, to no avail. Finally they sent a guy out, who was an installer but couldn't touch the pole. Said a different team handled that. About 2 weeks later, they took care of it at last. Not hard work - it was literally rebinding a 20 ft section of wire to the taught steel wire that already existed, which they appear to do with heavy wire ties.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#260

Post by amazon_not » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 8:04 PM UTC

emilecantin wrote: post #201

briandear wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Fiber to the home is the only fiber than really matters. If there is fiber but my last mile is old copper, then that doesn’t do me a lot of good does it? France claiming 100% fiber by 2022? They are dreaming, or perhaps even delusional. No way they can get FTTH by 2022. There are some places that don’t have any connectivity and you have to use Satelite. They’re going to fix that in 4 years?

It depends on what kind of copper. DSL suffers from the limits of twisted pairs over medium-long distances, with only about 1100 kHz available. DOCSIS, with its shielded coaxial cable, has much higher bandwidth available, up to 750 MHz. In practical terms, this means that DSL has already reached its practical limit with speeds around 30-50 Mbps, whereas Cable Internet still has room to grow around 2-4 Gbps, depending…

Not quite. VDSL2 will nominally do 300 Mbps. Actual 100 Mbps service isn't uncommon.

The successor, G.fast, will nominally do a gig, but about 500 Mbps over short loops.