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How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

theguardian.com

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Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#251

Post by gorpomon »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11
gorpomon wrote: post #7

I spent a summer in NYC a few years ago. While living in NYC I did get a flavor of higher class living with some roommates of mine. It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't. However, this is one issue that's hard to put solely on the foot of the rich or a broader system. Passing in many avenues, not just by class, is really deciding you want to be the…

> It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't Any examples spring to mind?

A few really stuck out to me.

The biggest one was pouring wine. I remember a few times I poured it kind of off and I got that distinct look of class violation. Haggling about splitting checks also got those looks often, the lesson I learned there was that almost always, the party will want to split it evenly rather than do something as gauche as math, so rather than order less, order much more so you get a discount on your meal :-)

I also spent some time in a small rich beach town, and from that time I remember how my switching to boat shoes seemed to instantly ingratiate me with some people. Also never mention how "cool" it is that someone has a jetski or nice boat, those things were just taken as statements of fact.

To many people these might not seem like real mores or wealth signifiers. Maybe you think I was just over-sensitive. This whole article though, is about feelings, and certainly in those moments it seemed like everyone was certainly feeling something strongly.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#252

Post by emodendroket »

ryandrake wrote: post #234
dizzystar wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my mind, watering and feeding your lawn so that it is nice and green and exactly 1 1/2" tall all year round is a solid middle-class indicator. I find it kind of strange to spend that time and money on doing something that has little to no productive value. Not throwing daggers or anything, but every strata has things that are a bit strange about them. Yes, I know that upper class does that too, unless you are in t…

I suppose it varies regionally. To me, merely owning a lawn is something reserved for the upper crust, let alone having the time to maintain one. The middle class lives in small apartments and rents houses (with roommates or extended family).

That's mostly a symptom of a shrinking middle class, in my mind.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#253

Post by emodendroket »

trowawee wrote: post #128
cryptoz wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That all sounds so miserable. I think I'd rather stay middle class than deal with that stuff.

I mean, there are social codes in any group. It's not unique to rich people, it's just how humans are. There are middle class equivalents to some of these. Growing up, we didn't shop at Nordstrom, but we certainly didn't shop at Goodwill. In most places, there are "middle class" grocery stores and clothing shops. It's just that, if you don't shift groups, you usually don't notice the rules and structures because you'…

Yeah, that's true. I can remember my mom acting like I'd completely lost my mind when I first discovered cheap jeans at Walmart and bought some, but there really wasn't much appreciable difference from the more expensive ones I usually got.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#254

Post by atomical »

saget wrote: post #123
ericd wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to become wealthy is to spend less than you make. The only way to stay wealthy is to spend less than you make (and have your investments outpace inflation). One of the best ways to do that is to not inflate your lifestyle, like starting to think you're too good for things like putting together your furniture from Ikea.

Some of the wealthiest people I know are also the cheapest. The other week my gf's parents (very well off) refused to go to a clinic that their insurance didn't work at after their son cut off the tip of his finger. Took them and hour to find a place to go. It seemed absurd from my perspective to put a few hundred dollars in front of a medical emergency when you can afford a private plane, but I guess that's part of…

If it is a few hundred dollars to stop the suffering sooner it sounds like OCD.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#255

Post by emodendroket »

slavik81 wrote: post #200
rm999 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for OP, but a big one is how to deal with the check at a restaurant. For people who are lower/lower middle class (or at the least not financially secure), you pass around a receipt and take turns deciding who owes what. In the middle/upper middle class, there is an unspoken rule the check gets split, and anything else is awkward. In the upper class, oftentimes one person will pay for the check and it's…

> you pass around a receipt and take turns deciding who owes what A lot of things in this thread seem completely foreign to me. Every restaurant I've been to in the past few years has just asked how we want to split the bill. They seem to keep all orders separate in the system and just merge them if you want shared bills.

I usually like to eat at less-expensive restaurants and most of them will just outright refuse to do like six checks.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#256

Post by ch4s3 »

whataretensors wrote: post #232
ch4s3 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate on how cryptocurrency is an alternative to engaging in the present economic arrangement?

You can still invest in early stage currencies or ICOs, unlike startups. As a creator if you have an idea for a currency you can release it without permission, and if people like it they will give you money. The alternatives are bootstrapping, which is exhausting and what I've done. Have rich friends - you likely won't if you are poor. Or get accepted to some investment signaling filter like YC where you get to run a…

You really think there's any sort of future in ICOs? The seem awfully faddish, and are quickly gaining the reputation for being ponzi schemes. I don't see how they can easily be connected to the value create by a company over time. If you issue more coins or engane in buybacks, then they're basically stock and I'm sure the SEC will want to ask you some questions. If you don't issue new coins over the initial set amount, then it's deflationary and lends itself to the usual pump and dump.

Moreover, I don't see how ICOs offer anything to people without a lot of disposable income. They are simply too high risk for anyone who doesn't already have quite a bit of money they can afford to lose. At best they offer a way for people who are already in the top 1/3 of income earners to speculate and find greater fools among the slightly more wealthy.

Am I missing some fundamental value of ICOs as an instrument for investment?

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#257

Post by ericd »

balthasar wrote: post #73
callesgg wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds insane/neurotic if you think some rich people sat in a meting deciding that would be a good way to suppress the poor. It might serve their richness but that does not mean they have hidden agendas in regards to it.

He speaking metaphorically. It makes little difference if the situation is contrived by a cabal versus many actors acting independently.

I think a good number of people actually believe that rich people get together to conspire to keep the lower classes divided. So saying this as a metaphor without any caveats is probably not a great idea.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#258

Post by walshemj »

PoachedSausage wrote: post #159
vostok wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I remember being accused of using too many "five dollar words", being a nerd for spending time learning technology, being a loser for reading books! The upper class looks down on nerds, especially technology nerds, just as much as if not more than the lower class does. If we're stereotyping, intellectualism is largely a middle class phenomenon.

Perhaps it is now, but it was not always the case. At the dawn of age of reason you would have certainly needed to be independently wealthy (upper class) in order to pursue purely intellectual activities. For a time, anti-intellectualism was perhaps not as prevalent within the working class. Education was seen as a way to better ones self, people tended allotment gardens and took part in sports and cultural activitie…

Yes written by a liberal arts guardian journo who totally ignores that fact that elements of the working class did look down on other members of the working class.

I have certainly heard that having one set of grandparents from the working class Gran started in service and Granddad was a coalminer then a buss driver.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#260

Post by emodendroket »

stcredzero wrote: post #86
saget wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How you dress is very important. Knowing enough about current events and having your own, thoughtful opinion about them. Knowing a number of books and using them in conversation. Rules on when to be blunt are different. Never order a burger at a restaurant. I could go on but it's a hard thing to summarize. (source: was middle/lower class, now have many 1% friends)

Never order a burger at a restaurant. I've noticed that waiters/waitresses seem to treat me worse if I order a beer where I could've ordered wine. Especially when the cuisine is French or centered around steak.

Well, the hell with them. Beer is the better drink and making it requires more sophistication (it's definitely a more complicated process).
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