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How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

theguardian.com

191–200 of 355 posts

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I grew up in the Midwest where chicken fried rice from the local Chinese place was about as exotic as it got, and our standard meals were some form of overcooked meat, potatoes, and a token green. The evolution of the food and restaurant scenes in the US is one of the things I'm pretty happy about. It can definitely be handled poorly, but for the most part I think it's been a positive.

Variety is great. I love access to various ethnic cuisines. What I'm sick of is how you can't get normal fries because they are all sweet potato fries with truffle oil and similar gimmicks.

Go to lower or higher class restaurants if you want food that is not optimized for buzzword density.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#192

This article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr to 5x that and never experienced anything in between. The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean. A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use. I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly…

> "The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean." For me, the weirdest part is the way in which the upper-middle class people I now associate and work with talk about "my people" (i.e. the working-class folks I grew up with). They mythologize them as the noble, hard-working, salt of the earth, when in reality, they clearly don't like most of their ha…

At some point you end up in this in between world, where the office worker sees you as a car mechanic and the car mechanic sees you as an office worker. This gray area is very difficult to navigate and causes severe identity crisis.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oil could have enabled that kind of coordiation too, how'd that work out? For a mass movement, you need lots of leaders (of people) to band together and agree to steer the ship in a specific direction.

Hm? Oil isn’t a communications medium.

Not with that attitude its not.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#194
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the next time a rich person gives you an askance look and you immediately ask them to explain themselves, guess what, you just equalized yourself with them socially without having to learn which fork to use first. Or you've shibboleth'ed yourself out by not already knowing what the askance look meant.

Sure, but you were already outside the group because of your misuse of spoons. I have difficulty picking up the nuance of these small askance glances, so without asking, it's unlikely I'll ever pick up the shibboleth. Personally, I've always thought the only way to win is to not play the game. High class values have never really appealed to me, although I guess feel the hierarchy/status issue as much as anyone else.

Not playing the game is fine, and a classless life is enjoyed by many, but it's not how "you just equalized yourself with them socially."

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#196

As someone who's navigated their way from poor->middle class->upper middle class I can give a bit of perspective that I rarely see mentioned in these articles... One of the biggest barriers to moving up in class is the people in your starter class. Family, friends, neighbors... almost all of them will start to get very aggressive with you if you seriously try to better yourself. I remember being accused of using too…

tldr; class mobility has a muted standard deviation, likely on purpose.

There are tons of intentional and unintentional barriers for class mobility.

Here are the socially accepted ways that class mobility is rigged for developers specifically:

* A royalty-free tech culture. Since successful software is often exponential we don't get the meat of the value we create at a job. This could be compensated for with stock, but it's not because of the next point.

* Common stock/preferred stock. Employees get the worse of the two. Ask the Uber employees about this, where they had to pay income tax on an illiquid asset. Followed by a liquidation event that they could only participate in if they were accredited investor status.

* Accredited investor status. This states you must already be rich to make early stage investments. This is an important one because the best time to invest in a world-changing company is as soon as you can. As developers we've had to sit on the sidelines and watch investors get rich from obvious good ideas like github, airbnb, uber, sendgrid, facebook, etc while being told we can't put disposable income into the market because we didn't have enough of it. For instance, $1000 in facebook seed round today would be millions. Note that you can dedicate 2-4 years of your life for a very small portion of a different stock class. I fully expect the SEC to try to stop people investing in cryptocurrencies with the same scheme.

* Class-based social status. Your broke friends and family will come to you whenever there is a problem. They are more likely to be addicts and gamblers(statistically). If you help them and things go wrong and you stop helping them, they will hate you. If you refuse to help them you will feel like the worst person in the world. The 'crabs in a bucket' mentality op pointed out is real.

* Income tax. This is a hotly debated topic since often rich people are paid well. But for a poor person who is paid well one year, it's brutal. Not to mention your estimated taxes come from last years income, so if you have a bad year after a good one you will be forced to loan the government a ridiculous amount of money. Which you _might_ get back, eventually, at 0% apr. Don't try this the other way though, they can charge 5% apr a month plus fees.

* Capital gains tax. Often on assets which lack liquidity.

* Inflation. Having access to inflation is having access to variable taxes on the entire population of usd holders. The rich will have a majority of their money in assets.

* Game-able taxes. Taxes are completely context-dependent and no sane engineer would design it this way. The rich can afford people to play the games, which only makes sense at higher valuations.

* College. There are good things about going to college, but 2 years of "core curriculum", obscene costs, and unforgivable student debt are not part of them.

* Marriage. It's expensive. Having a family more so.

* Lack of identity theft protection. When this happens you get victim blamed and treated like a criminal. If you have money you can pay someone qualified to fix it, if not, good luck.

* Health insurance. If you want to start a company you better be okay with poor insurance since it's tied to your employer.

* Highly politicized culture. Society is willing to hurt people out who have controversial ideas that contradict the norm. These are often just working stiffs, not the decision makers. See James Damore.

* Fixed wages. Wages have not increased exponentially even though the power of individuals has.

Honestly I think almost all of it is intentional, like how the big tech companies colluded on engineer pay.

The system being rigged is why I believe in cryptocurrency in the long term. Sure there are scams and problems, but the alternative is to play an unfair game.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#197

My Mom was a immigrant who came from the Philippines. My dad was a polish person. I raised my income and made more than them by a few ways. 1. Figuring out how to get a degree in Computer Science. (I chose a state school UIC) 2. Getting a Job in CS (I worked at the school I had classes from and then transitioned to a real job locally). The way I did it was taking my resume and applying to jobs I believe I was qualifi…

It’s still a great accomplishment but I think it’s easier for your next generation to jump a class. I think the harder idea is to personally jump a class after being in one. But then again, it might just be that when someone has a child, they set them up to move up instead of themselves. They sacrifice their chance for their children. Otherwise they would have the capital to do it themselves. Obviously I’m just think…

This is absolutely the case for many poor families. My parents worked very hard so that their children could have a better life than they did. I am more educated, and wealthier than they ever were thanks to their hard work, and I am extremely grateful for it. Additionally they're also very happy their hard work and sacrifice has paid off.

Growing up poor has kept me grounded to the struggles of the working poor, even as my income has gone up many multiples since I started working.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#198

This article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr to 5x that and never experienced anything in between. The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean. A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use. I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly…

> A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use.

Meaning that people making $10 per hours use more or less coarse language than people making $50 per hour?

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the author of the parent comment, but my family shifted from solidly middle-class to members of the 1% over the course of a few years in the early 2000s (my teenage years) as our family business became significantly more successful. Here are some of the things I've experienced that strike me as examples of that: - Talking specifically about money (how much high-ticket items specifically cost, how much anyone spec…

A lot of that is covered in: Class: A Guide Through the American Status System by Paul Fussell Link: http://a.co/406UQB1

A little dated, but still an amazing book!

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#200
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't Any examples spring to mind?

I can't speak for OP, but a big one is how to deal with the check at a restaurant. For people who are lower/lower middle class (or at the least not financially secure), you pass around a receipt and take turns deciding who owes what. In the middle/upper middle class, there is an unspoken rule the check gets split, and anything else is awkward. In the upper class, oftentimes one person will pay for the check and it's…

> you pass around a receipt and take turns deciding who owes what

A lot of things in this thread seem completely foreign to me. Every restaurant I've been to in the past few years has just asked how we want to split the bill. They seem to keep all orders separate in the system and just merge them if you want shared bills.

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