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$4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

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Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#251

Post by mleonhard »

abawany wrote: post #75
krishicks wrote: post #26

Crash test results: 0 stars https://youtu.be/jePu-6TxypI Reminds me of the Tata Nano (also 0 stars): https://youtu.be/buMXtGoHHIg

Compare this to a 80s Mercedes 190: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw1GNfA_AnU . The passenger cell remains solid though the crash dummies experience injuries. I often wonder how much better the automotive market would be if solid designs remained in circulation instead of these new-old mistakes re-entering the market every time.

The 1980s Mercedes crash test is a full frontal crash test, which simulates the car crashing into a wall. Those kinds of crashes are rare. The Kwid and Nano videos are offset crash tests, which simulate the car crashing into another car. I bet the Mercedes would also fare very poorly in an offset crash test.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#252

Post by CamperBob2 »

7952 wrote: post #226
CamperBob2 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you'll be more likely to feel sorry for the driver, and less likely to feel defensive. It will be no more socially acceptable to jaywalk in front of an autonomous car than it would be to cut in line. (And yes, I know, line-cutting is rampant in China... but in India?)

You can easily see it the other way around. That cars act rudely by obstructing pedestrians and "cut the line" continuously. A lot of the paraphernalia in western style roads just reinforces the status of cars at the expense of other users.

And yet it somehow works in those Western cities, maybe because the people aren't dicks to each other.

But yeah, totally, let's blame cars.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#253

Post by GFischer »

wilg wrote: post #198
vivekd wrote: post #195

So wait, this means that if it weren't for safety and emission standards I'd be able to go out and buy a new car for 4000 dollars and a used car for a tiny fraction of that? I get that others want safety, but for me that's not as important as avoiding debt. Shouldn't I have the right to make that choice on my own?

To answer your first question: no. And as for the second, mostly no, unless you are purchasing a car that only kills or injures yourself when you get into a crash and also the emissions only go into your house and stay there.

The emissions on a Kwid are far lower than those on an American car.

And the Kwid would probably injure yourself and anyone driving with you... but, there's a version with ABS and Airbags, so the GP has a point.

https://auto.ndtv.com/news/renault-kwid-1-litre-variant-to-c...

Edit: by the way, I owned a Maruti Alto, and now own a Renault Twingo. I'd say it's surprisingly safe.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#255

Post by abawany »

mleonhard wrote: post #251
abawany wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare this to a 80s Mercedes 190: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw1GNfA_AnU . The passenger cell remains solid though the crash dummies experience injuries. I often wonder how much better the automotive market would be if solid designs remained in circulation instead of these new-old mistakes re-entering the market every time.

The 1980s Mercedes crash test is a full frontal crash test, which simulates the car crashing into a wall. Those kinds of crashes are rare. The Kwid and Nano videos are offset crash tests, which simulate the car crashing into another car. I bet the Mercedes would also fare very poorly in an offset crash test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOw-lgEG6Y0 at 0:53 and 2:17 is where they show an offset crash; not very comprehensive but it is clear to me that the shell remained pretty solid. I guess I am still in shock at the utter lack of integrity in the passenger compartment of the Kwid and the Nano - I really thought cars in this decade would be designed better than that. All of the safety comparisons with mopeds etc. sound a little ridiculous to me - I feel somewhat safe saying that none of us would ever knowingly buy the Kwid or Nano even if they were allowed in our respective countries; I definitely would prefer to walk over buying it. If it is not good enough for me, IMO it is not good enough for the folks in India.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#256

Post by abawany »

abawany wrote: post #142
gozur88 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine if they could make a $4k car that's as safe as what you find in the US and Europe they would be sold in the US and Europe.

I have a hard time imagining that 6k of the remaining cost (a basic car in the US can be had at $10k) would be because of a decent safety standard. I am curious to know how much more than $4k this Renault would be if they had spent a little time designing a safer passenger cell.

I don't think I ever asked that the car have airbags - with this car's atrociously weak passenger cell, an airbag would probably create more harm. All I am surprised by is the poor passenger cell that collapsed like it was made of pasta and everything in my comments has been directed to hoping they will redesign this thing to not collapse in a crash.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#257

Post by abawany »

arprocter wrote: post #237
abawany wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the point I was making. I am saying that the design principles of good design, especially for safety, should be well known now that decades have passed. Two additional points: 1. Can a 190 of that vintage be had for $4k now? IMO, that is a better investment than the Renault. 2. Could a car company license to build that 190 in India now at a low cost? That would have saved a lot of the design cost and provi…

Safer normally means heavier. I'm not sure of fuel costs in India, but this Renault has a 800cc engine 1 is true, but I assume the Renault will have a warranty, dealer support etc 2 I'd doubt it. Older Mercs were over engineered (the last of which was the w124) - it's not rare to still see them today, whereas other marques from the era are in scrapyards

As an alternative available in India for sale now, consider the VW Polo: https://www.cardekho.com/overview/Volkswagen_Polo/Volkswagen..., available for ~$7800 with dual airbags. True, that is nearly twice the price, but the safety results at http://www.globalncap.org/results/ (bottom, with airbags) speak for themselves. I know everyone has a different price on safety but buying one of these second hand, IMO, would be a better investment than buying the Renault new.

In the Global NCAP page above, it seems that the Kwid was re-tested and in subsequent tests, it looks like the passenger cell retained its integrity.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#258

Post by LoSboccacc »

sangnoir wrote: post #188
LoSboccacc wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tata Nano ($1600 equivalent) didn't disrupt a thing, why would this?

If you had read the article, you would know Renault's answer to this question.

If the issue is cars being status symbol being fancy but cheap won't help and won't make it desiderable nor a status symbol anymore than a dirt cheap rolex would

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#259

Post by sangnoir »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #258
sangnoir wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had read the article, you would know Renault's answer to this question.

If the issue is cars being status symbol being fancy but cheap won't help and won't make it desiderable nor a status symbol anymore than a dirt cheap rolex would

Did you read the article?! Renault's approach was to model the cheaper car after an existing car (Kwid) that was proven/already popular on the Indian market, and then they drove down component costs. They are relying on a market proven market segment (and the Kwid's halo effect won't harm).

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#260

Post by lazy12340987 »

vacri wrote: post #94
dmode wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty common in India to take your new car to the temple and get it blessed.

Interesting that in the photos, the priest is the least 'dressed-up' of all of them.

That's because, he definitely is not a priest, he is most likely an employee at the dealership. Im an Indian, that guying doing the puja doesnot resemble a Pujari (priest), Hindu pujari's have a very traditional dressing style. I feel that the writer was either unaware or just adding masala(spicing up) to his article by claiming him to be a priest.
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