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Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

visa.lafrenchtech.com

251–260 of 408 posts

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#251
post #213

They're requiring masters degrees for entrepreneur visas. One thing Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, Lei Jun, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Travis Kalanic and Cheng Wei all have in common is a lack of a master's degree. Why would France add a restriction to their visa that would have eliminated the founders of Amazon, Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX, Apple, Xiaomi, Facebook, Microsoft, Oracle, Ub…

There is a Founders Visa and an Employees visa. Only the employee's visa requires a masters degree. All the big names you dropped were people that never intended to be employees. I'm not sure what the problem is. > It's just making France look worse. This is just silly.

It's a cultural difference.

It doesn't make sense in French to look for less than a master level, whereas the standard is the bachelor in the USA.

"Everyone" has a master in France. The curriculum is 5 years straight in France (either 2 or 5 years). There isn't really such a thing as a 3-4 years bachelor level in engineering.

Some numbers: 60% of programmers have at least a master in France, less than 30% in the USA.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#252

I live and work in France and I am well versed in this type of Visa. It's a very nice arrangement, but it's still France. It's still dealing with the same administrative burdens for everything else. You don't get treated special, you just have a special deal. I've said before that if France wants to attract foreign talent what they need to do is assign someone in the French administration to help workers get establis…

Just to add one more point, on the website it says:

"Dependent children under the age of 18 do NOT need a residence permit. However, an underage child travel document (‘document de circulation pour étranger mineur’ – DCEM) must be obtained at your local Préfecture after your arrival in France."

In my prefecture we have been trying to get a DCEM for each child for 1 year. The prefecture is not doing them at all, and they do not know when they will again. And the prefecture says the children cannot re-enter France without them. Our immigration lawyer says "as a practical matter" border control will allow the kids back in if you fly into France (but maybe not another EU country).

The residency for kids is a pretty good deal, but you just may not actually be able to get it (maybe in another year?).

But I actually do really like France. I want to stay here awhile. I've done everything above board, legally, legitimately. The people are really great, not like the stereotypes. It's worth all the hassle I believe, but I think people need to be aware of the reality of the difficulty of the process that France is advertising in trying to attract foreign tech workers.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While France isn't the best country in the world for easily paying your taxes, it's clearly much better than the US if it's what you are afraid of.

Actually paying French income tax is pretty easy; it's paying US taxes if you are a US citizen working in France that's hard. I'm not sure Americans know that they are taxed on their income wherever they earn it. All other countries only tax your income that you earn in that country. French citizens don't pay income tax on their salary they earn in the US, but the reverse is not true. Not only do Americans have to pa…

Ah I see, I forgot about those US taxes, it's indeed very inconvenient...

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#254

I live and work in France and I am well versed in this type of Visa. It's a very nice arrangement, but it's still France. It's still dealing with the same administrative burdens for everything else. You don't get treated special, you just have a special deal. I've said before that if France wants to attract foreign talent what they need to do is assign someone in the French administration to help workers get establis…

I've seen some pretty technical things done by some french developers, so for sure they have the talent. Why there are no noticeable companies coming out of France then? I just think the same, they are killing it with bureaucracy.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#255
post #214
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ability to speak half decent French After having lived and worked in multiple EU countries, I'm convinced that language is the single biggest barrier to true freedom of movement of workers in the EU. In Germany, for example, you cannot assume any daily task can be accomplished without the German language. You're then faced with either constantly dealing with communication problems with everything in your life,…

> What is needed is a joint common language Great! I propose Spanish, being the second most spoken language by number of native speakers (behind Chinese), and given the relevance of Spain through history in Europe. (this comment was only half joking. It's easy to impose a global language when it's yours, but you see, it's a different story when you need to learn a different one).

Estas vera. Ni devos Esperanton lerni.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#256
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot directly compare a San Francisco salary to a French/Western European salary. Healthcare, benefits, rent, etc. are completely different.

You can compare contracting in London/Zurich/other financial centre. There you can get on par with SF salaries as contractor. Btw, rent in London is about the same as SF or slightly higher. So even with benefits included it's a worse deal. I don't know what the situation with renting is like in Paris but given how low salaries are rent would have to be much lower compared to London in order for it to make sense to wo…

Paris: Rent is 1000 to 1500 € a month for a 1 bedroom.

Add the utilities and council tax on top.

That's tough considering a typical salary of 40k/year is about 2k/month after all taxes.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#257
post #173
post #46

It looks great on paper but the devil will be in the detail and how well they execute on the admin/bureaucracy side. If my experience a few years ago with the auto entrepreneur scheme and URSAFF are anything to go by, you'll need a lot of patience, the ability to speak half decent French and a sense of humour if you want to avoid ripping all your hair out :) I love France (have even married one of their citizens!) bu…

At least 20% of French people express capitalism-hostile opinions (and it goes well beyond Mélenchon voters). You face hostility as soon as you make money, with consequences ranging from being denied places in the kindergarten to the "petit Gregory" affair where the 5 years old son of a newly promoted team leader was drowned. I'm trying to show off as much as I can that I'm sponsoring poverty, donating a lot, making…

Every person here should watch Yuri Bezmenov's lectures on ideological subversion, you can find them on youtube.

The lecture is 30 years old but everything going on today makes sense after hearing him lay things out. The division in society on race, gender, income, etc is by design to keep the plebes at each others throats.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#258
post #48

At this point it seems that many Europe nations are more "free" than the US. Now with same-sex marriage getting legal in germany the probably last big issue is resolved. You will not get extreme high salaries like in the US, but there is stuff like free higher education and getting serious medical care won't be expensive at all. Also remember that the EU has a higher population than the US with very diverse countries…

I find European culture and history alluring, but I don't think Europe is somehow "more free" than the U.S., in particular, you guys have much more regulation and far greater taxes. Maybe you have a greater quality of life by certain measures, but I think the freedom point is hard to defend. Maybe I'm wrong?

I consider myself a highly patriotic American and I used to think that France was much less free than the US, but after living here I have a different view. There seem to be fewer extremes in France: not so many rich people, not so many poor people. No one seems to get too worked up about anything. You can't so easily go buy dirt cheap, low quality food/clothes/cars/housing that are just going to cause you problems later. There is a ton of administration (see my comments elsewhere in this thread) but most of it you only have to do once. Drivers licenses last 15 years. You register you car once and pay tax once, not every year, and the tax isn't that much. No required safety and admissions tests. Property tax is really low (600 euros a year on a 200K euro house). Gas is more expensive, but everything else is generally the same as the US (I live outside Paris).

Auto insurance costs me 25 euros a month for two drivers, two vehicles, with unlimited personal liability and 100 million euro property damages liability (not a typo). Doctor's visits are 25 euros each time and basically no other fees at all (from what I can tell). It's cheap and easy to register a small business. I rarely see police. I've seen a car pulled over by police 1 time in 1 year.

Once you get all your paperwork in line and get "in the system" life is pretty good. It's calm and you have a lot of social protections which brings peace of mind. It's safe. Crime is low. Food quality is off the charts. If you haven't been to France, come just for the food. You'll never be the same. Food quality is high and prices are a little lower than in the US. You pay more in taxes, but not a lot more (ignoring having to pay US income tax as an expat).

So it has caused me to look at freedom differently. Here in France it feels like the government is actually on your side, working to protect you. I've never felt that way in the US. I'm sure France has it's corruption and injustices but it seems much lower than the US.

The US is more like the Wild West. You are free, but you have to defend yourself. You have to do everything on your own: plow the field, milk the cows, stand with a shotgun when someone rides in. It's a sort of "dangerous" freedom. I'd take that over being subjugated, but France seems to have a better perspective. I think the climate and culture are the reason why, not really the form of government. And I don't think there is as much racial or ethnic strife here.

So I think France is actually pretty free. But I don't know if the US would get the same results if it just implemented the same policies. I think there would need to be a cultural change first.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#259

Here is a country that refused to give me knowledge when i needed it but it's now trying to lure me in. A decade back i finished my high school in a French speaking country with honors and got an admission in a French university to study Business Administration. I've been refused the entry visa for some imaginary reasons. Unofficially i was part of the group of potential foreign students who may refuse to go back to…

It should not be that personal. This a weird way to think of it, France is 20 million times different from the "France" of that person or persons, who decided you do not go there. I was turned down from getting an entry visa to a country when I needed it the most, yet go it later very easily for something that I was not very keen to travel for it. By the way, I went to France last month and loved every minute of it.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#260

Here is a country that refused to give me knowledge when i needed it but it's now trying to lure me in. A decade back i finished my high school in a French speaking country with honors and got an admission in a French university to study Business Administration. I've been refused the entry visa for some imaginary reasons. Unofficially i was part of the group of potential foreign students who may refuse to go back to…

It should not be that personal. This a weird way to think of it, France is 20 million times different from the "France" of that person or persons, who decided you do not go there. I was turned down from getting an entry visa to a country when I needed it the most, yet go it later very easily for something that I was not very keen to travel for it. By the way, I went to France last month and loved every minute of it.
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