Live data from Hacker News

Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

pi-hole.net

251–260 of 320 posts

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone should whip up a little community-driven service that would serve all known ad network hosts.

So we'll have ublock/adblock without the parts that block the ads.

ublock only acts on the browser(s) to which it's been added. PiHole, other DNS blockers, or firewall-type (CIDR-block) blockers defend all applications from either DNS-supported services (most of them), or direct network access (most of the rest). To bypass the second, you'd need apps which had, say, VNC or proxy access to somewhere, and I strongly suspect those proxies would be fairly trivial to add.

I've been running various blocking and reporting systems for coming on 20 years myself, and find that applying my own hygiene controls to network traffic is ... surprisingly effective. Not bulletproof by any means (though reasonably effective against "bulletproof" hosting providers), but it massively reduces attack service.

I've been thinking a lot about networks, size and scale, and the corresponding levels of abuse. To a rough approximation, the Internet grew by an order of magnitude from 1969 to 1970 (1 to 10 nodes), 1977, 1985, 1987, 1989, 1993, 1995, 2000, and 2012 (1 billion nodes).

The "Linux Sucks" guy (multiple presos at Linux conferences on the state of breakage within Linux) did a preso recently on the IoT, noting that we're going to be looking at roughly 80 billion nodes by 2020. I'm wondering what that will do to various forms of abuse.

In the 1970s there was Phreaking and John "Captain Crunch" Draper. In the 1980s, the first boot-sector viruses (Brain: 1986) and the Morris Worm (1988). War dialing was a thing.

Through the 1990s, there was Usenet spam, first jokes like Make Money Fast, then Green Card. With the spread of the WWW, the first banner ads, pop-ups, and click fraud.

2000s: adware and spyware (bug-for-bug compatible reimplimentation on Android now), ID theft, high-profile viruses (Nimda, Code Red, Welchia, Slammer...), DDoS, and Phishing.

In the 2010s, click fraud and various forms of doxxing and pranking lead to wholsesale attacks on liberal democracy itself, with A/B tested bots and informational attacks.

I'm looking for a concept of network scale and problems encountered out of this.

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#252

For those of us - myself included - who run a hosts file list (either using dnsmasq like Pi-hole or directly), here are the sources that Pi-hole use so you can add to your own solution: https://github.com/pi-hole/pi-hole/blob/master/adlists.defau... There's a few on there I don't use and will look to implement. There's also a few they seem to have missed (perhaps intentionally?) so below I have included the lists I u…

uBlock actually has a very good list of blockfiles, most of which (from memory) correspond to those you list. Last I checked it was on the order of 60k hosts.

I've used that to populate my own hosts + dnsmasq blockfiles. Using just the winhelp2002 list does a passably good job on a DD-WRT imaged router (~13k entries).

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful with "I believe that I am pretty much completely unaffected ads, but then so does almost everybody else." This is in the same vein of inductive reasoning as "just snap out of your [insert mental illness/addiction/etc.]." "People," in this context, isn't defined either. If however we were to say that by "people" you mean millennials, then you would be wrong. But if you meant "the population at large" you wo…

The emphasis makes it pretty clear that the statement you're quoting was an ironic one.

What's your interpretation of it, because I still don't see it.

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#254

I definitely hate ads like anyone, but it should be acknowledged that ads serve a purpose too, of creating an economy for free content and giving people an avenue to get some income in exchange for their efforts, and possibly be able to devote their full attention to a free project and not have to support themselves with other income. Ads give creators some incentive to create stuff - although the income generally is…

no one has the right or should spam people with ads. There are lots of ways to support your projects without ads. Privacy matters!

I think, privacy, spam and ads-in-general are related but distinct concepts that don't necessarily involve each other (although more likely to be so than not, when it comes to real-life situations).

Ads are about what's being sent from publisher to consumer. It can be solicited, unsolicited or something in-between. And privacy is about what's being sent in the very opposite direction.

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#255

For those of us - myself included - who run a hosts file list (either using dnsmasq like Pi-hole or directly), here are the sources that Pi-hole use so you can add to your own solution: https://github.com/pi-hole/pi-hole/blob/master/adlists.defau... There's a few on there I don't use and will look to implement. There's also a few they seem to have missed (perhaps intentionally?) so below I have included the lists I u…

Sound like an amazing setup, what about sharing all these scripts? How and why you build your browser?

For a router-based block, see DD-WRT and dnsmaq:

https://ello.co/dredmorbius/post/b2ungqjvmlflvinrtp4cug

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#256

With all the ad blocking technologies that are coming up, I wonder if Google is devising something to counteract these efforts. For instance, since browser-based ad blockers work from what I know by blocking known domain names, couldn't Google create random subdomains and serve the code from a different subdomain every day or even every few hours, as well as change the way their JavaScript and HTML looks? Even someth…

Ad blockers do a lot more than just block domains. They look for and remove divs/DOM elements that contain known ad naming schemes and remove them from the page. And if a site decides to start combating the ad blockers, the adblock list providers will update their rules specifically for the site in question. Adblock users get upset whenever they see ads, and report them pretty quickly. The business I work for tried b…

Yes, that's why I also mentioned changing the HTML. For instance, change the ID of the div that contains the ad. It could even be random and change every time.

I don't have experience fighting ad blockers, though (I actually enjoy my ad blocker).

If Google did it, I doubt ad blockers would be able to block all ajax request on Google, or everyone would simply uninstall the extension.

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#257

With all the ad blocking technologies that are coming up, I wonder if Google is devising something to counteract these efforts. For instance, since browser-based ad blockers work from what I know by blocking known domain names, couldn't Google create random subdomains and serve the code from a different subdomain every day or even every few hours, as well as change the way their JavaScript and HTML looks? Even someth…

You would just block *.addomain.com at that point. Which is already what is being done on many of the blockers. There will always be domains to block, even if they add new domains, the blockers will probably be able to block them just as fast.

www.google.com/dslkj/

www.google.com/dog-595984hdfh/

www.google.com/cat21/

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#258
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DNS happens before HTTP and HTTPS. If you block at the DNS level it will work for both HTTP and HTTPS URLs. That page you linked seems to confirm this, and that Pi-Hole works just fine blocking HTTPS.

That's true, but instead of empty ad being server (as in case HTTP), HTTPS request timeouts and increases loading time for many pages, because the page waits until all JS loads. Another problem is that some browsers will retry failed request several times (Chromium) effectively prolonging the time before final error is confirmed. More about HTTP retry can be found here https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-nottingham-httpb…

HTTPS requests only timeout if your setup doesn't reject them (also described in your first link).

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#259
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ad-Away (installable via F-Droid if you are rooted) allows you to block ads at the hosts-file level, which will work in Chrome and in other apps that display ads. Before anyone chews me out, as this effectively renders many free apps equivalent to their premium (ad-free) counterparts, I usually pay for said premium versions to compensate their developers.

The catch here is that it isn't as good - using uBlock in FF for Android for example will properly block all ad frames. Using adaway or a pi-hole for that matter will not - they will only cause ad loading to fail (in some cases) - which sometimes results in frames showing errors on the page instead of a clean rendering of nothing with ad divs removed. Personally I wind up using several methods - AdAway to kill most a…

Belt ans suspenders.

Defense in depth.

Re: Pi-hole – A black hole for Internet advertisements

#260

With all the ad blocking technologies that are coming up, I wonder if Google is devising something to counteract these efforts. For instance, since browser-based ad blockers work from what I know by blocking known domain names, couldn't Google create random subdomains and serve the code from a different subdomain every day or even every few hours, as well as change the way their JavaScript and HTML looks? Even someth…

First party advertising. And native advertising.
Post reply on HN