California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents • Hacker News Board

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#251

Post by jazzyk » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 6:32 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #176

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's social security, retirement funds, and savings. Why does 'government job' mean anything special?

Government jobs are often very low pay. Many government workers who are promised a pension are locked out of social security. If you are being paid so low that you cannot save for regular expenses, let alone retirement, then what are you going to do when you turn 65? Turn over and die immediately? Also, the reason you assure pension to government employees is because they tend to be stable and dependable workers over…

This is like the "Java is slow" myth that will never go away :-)

In 2014 federal civilian workers had an average wage of $84,153, according the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis [1].5 By comparison, the average wage for the nation's 111 million private-sector workers was $56,350.

In Las Vegas, the average salary and benefits package for firefighter union employees was $199,678 (in 2009, I think) [2]. The average salary alone was $128,026.

Please also note that federal government pensions are in a league of its own - 80% of your last year salary - and there are stories in newspapers every year about, for example, street cops working overtime and making $120K+ in their last year.

[1] http://www.bea.gov/iTable/iTable.cfm?ReqID=9&step=1#reqid=9&...

[2] http://lasvegassun.com/news/2009/dec/30/cost-cutting-ideas-c...

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#252

Post by kamaal » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 6:42 PM UTC

mr_tristan wrote: post #65

Heh, funny to read this on the day my moving van arrives to get my things outta here! It's a little sad, but we simply got fed up with the standard of living here. And, the Bay Area just feels mismanaged. Getting around is a royal pain. After living in Vienna, I was amazed at people who thought Bart was great. Really? I found it dirty, slow, and crazy expensive. Of course everything is just crazy expensive. A beer ga…

>>It's like the entire economy is about paying rent.

To be more precise, paying for real estate. You can't buy a decent home anywhere for less $1 million and property taxes are crazy.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#253

Post by TwiztidK » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 6:46 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #34

TwiztidK wrote: post #9

I just visited some friends in southern California and the possibility of me moving out there came up in conversation. So, I used a cost of living calculator to figure how much more I would need to make to be at the same level... 60% more. Definitely not going to happen.

Meh, it's not impossible. My salary went up 50% when I moved here.

I looked at some pay ranges on Payscale and a few other sites and I really do not see that happening. Perhaps I could swing a 30% increase, but (after taxes) the difference in rent alone would consume most of that.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#254

Post by jjn2009 » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 6:47 PM UTC

hx87 wrote: post #198

jff wrote: post #95

Then they move to another state, and drive up the housing markets, and vote for all the same stuff that made California untenable, and wonder why the natives are hostile.

I doubt the newcomers will be voting for NIMBYist ordnances though; that tends to be something existing owners do.

jff is referring to the exportation of left leaning voters.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#255

Post by HillaryBriss » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 6:48 PM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #238

I'll read the article later, but this sounds like a replay of about twenty years ago. Articles in the WSJ, NYT, et. al., about how CA's high housing prices and taxation are causing an exodus to such places as Las Vegas (and we see how that turned out). I was too young to have paid attention at the time, but I wouldn't be surprised to go back to the archives to the 70s, where one might find the same articles. I know,…

Yes.

Also, tax rates are higher today than they were in the 1970s.

One data point: California statewide sales tax base rate was in the 3.75% to 5.0% range in the 1970s. Today it's 6.25%.

https://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/taxrateshist.htm

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#256

Post by jjn2009 » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 6:48 PM UTC

jonathankoren wrote: post #146

FussyZeus wrote: post #5

No interest to move to the Bay area. You could work literally anywhere else and live like a millionaire on their salaries but by the time you've paid for a house and car there you might as well live in a VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER.

There's no river, but I found this. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/sbw/5642724453.html

Oh wow only 900 a month? finally something I can afford to live in!

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#257

Post by pj_mukh » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 6:50 PM UTC

hx87 wrote: post #225

sbardle wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of the grossest generalisation, the Bay Area has worked because it's combined two very different types of people. On the one hand, the engineers/techies (with roots in the defence industry and conservative midwest backgrounds) and on the other, the idealists/utopians (with roots in the counter-culture movement). Strange bedfellows, but a world-changing combination back then. I don't live in the Valley now…

If it is a monoculture now, it's because the engineer culture took on counterculture values while pricing the actual counterculture out of the region. The engineers still have their conservatism in that they tend to think of as many possible failure modes as possible and try to address then when they can. It's just not recognizable as such because the rational, cautious, establishmentarian 1950s conservatism has been…

It doesn't need to be. If all the tech companies are experimenting with ways to up-end different industries and ways of doing things. The municipality should also invest in experimenting with how to maintain affordability and accessibility and therefore diversity. Currently, the municipality, is geared to just make sure real-estate investor values are maintained. Therefore, the bill mentioned above.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#258

Post by mikestew » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 6:50 PM UTC

linuxlizard wrote: post #82

Come to Boise, Idaho (USA). We need high tech people. Excellent quality of life, low commutes. https://www.tsheets.com/living-in-boise/ (I don't work at T-Sheets but they have a great page on living in Boise.) Also in Boise: Micron, HP's laser printer division.

Craigslist shows about a half dozen jobs, just like it always does when I look. Other sources have similar results. Where might one find these companies that "need tech people"? Because I'm seriously looking to get out of the Seattle area, and Boise would be a first choice, but for the lack of available jobs.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#259

Post by HillaryBriss » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 6:51 PM UTC

sphinx65 wrote: post #46

This is happening almost everywhere, but at a less frightening pace than CA. And we are told continually by the chattering class and politicians that skyrocketing real estate prices - asset inflation - is a good thing. Since forever a stable residential real estate market was the goal and people understood its value. Now we're all gamblers, meaning losers. When the hedge funds and REIT's stop speculating in residenti…

Maybe the biggest reason they tell us that skyrocketing real estate prices are such a good thing is simply that, as long they keep skyrocketing, we won't see huge quantities of failed home mortgages.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#260

Post by HillaryBriss » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 6:56 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #15

TwiztidK wrote: post #9

I just visited some friends in southern California and the possibility of me moving out there came up in conversation. So, I used a cost of living calculator to figure how much more I would need to make to be at the same level... 60% more. Definitely not going to happen.

I visited a few times in the past. Spent a large part of the day stuck in LA traffic. It wasn't even morning or evening community, it seems it is an all day kinda thing. There was a metro / subway there but it never seemed to go where we wanted to go.

Not to worry. In just 25 more years, the metro system will go almost all the way to the airport.