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The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

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Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#241
post #236
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the part you quoted? Wear something that only a coder would wear. I've met non-coders who wore dresses. Clothing is signalling; that's almost its entire purpose at this stage. If 95% of people who wear outfit A are marketers, and you wear outfit A, you're going to (initially) be treated like a marketer. Surprise!

I understood "only" to mean "most representative" as it made the most sense to me in this context (example: "she loved him as only a mother would"). But let's play by your set of rules. What would be something nobody but a coder would wear? Bonus question. If "clothing is signalling", what does a typical coder's outfit say about their ability to come up with non copy-paste solutions? Double bonus question. What do yo…

> What would be something nobody but a coder would wear?

T-shirt with a programming joke is the easy answer.

> Bonus question. If "clothing is signalling", what does a typical coder's outfit say about their ability to come up with non copy-paste solutions?

What are you trying to say here? An outfit tells you what someone's into, not how good they are at it.

> Double bonus question. What do you think of black coders, who are even less common than female coders? Do you presume they are at a tech event to play basketball? Would you advise them to come in white face so they could provide the right "signalling"?

If someone's dressed in basketball gear then I'm going to assume they're into basketball yeah. But most black programmers I've met dressed like programmers. And while there aren't that many black programmers, it's the ratio that matters. At a typical tech event, most of the black people you meet are programmers. Most of the women you meet aren't. Most people wearing a suit or dress aren't.

If you want people to think you're a business person, dress like a business person. If you want people to think you're a coder, dress like a coder. If you enjoy dressing as a punk but you're actually politically authoritarian, fine, more power to you, but don't complain when people make reasonable inferences from what you've chosen to wear.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#242
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I hate to be this person, but do you know who the high-paid, "celebrity" hair stylists are? Men. If you look at all the communications careers-- teachers, psychologists, marketers. Men make the most money and have the most prestige in female-dominated professions. "Flipping" a scenario is rarely the best way of formulating an argument.

Meanwhile: * 93% of prisoners are male: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._incarceration_rates_1... * 92% of all occupational deaths are male: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_fatality * 84% of homeless people are male: http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/may/07/men-gen... The general statistical consensus is actually that men have higher variance in general. You're more likely as a man to be r…

Most car accidents are male, too. It doesn't mean they're bad drivers, it means that men drive longer distances, longer time than women.

It's a matter of probability. The more you drive, the more you are likely to have an accident at some point.

Match total men mileage and get the ratio accident/man.mile .. Then do the same for women.

More accident for less driving. Numbers say another thing.

If someone's a truck driver and spends basically his whole day driving and has driven hundred of thousands of miles and he's been in 5 accidents.. And I've been in 1 accident.. What do the numbers say ?

I love it when people want to bend numbers to make them say what they want, yet completely take them out of context.

Oh:

84% of homeless people are male ?

Okay, find each one of them. Ask if he was married before. If yes, ask him where is his wife..

I'm willing to bet she's not inside that card-board box:)

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't meet so many people that they can't spare a few minutes politeness. Mostly prejudicial judgements are made out of laziness and incompetence, not because they are useful. Obviously I don't know your circumstances. I guess if you did meet a lot of people and were seeking certain types (e.g. direct sales looking for customers) it would make sense to improve your odds by profiling. However, even then, I…

Well said. I like to think I give folks a chance. My comment was exploring why profiling is so pervasive.

Because it works. People profiling can be wrong, but they're more likely to be right given the odds.

They'd much rather be wrong on one case and save a hole lot of time, than make sure they get all the cases and finally find nothing. They could find a gem, but what are the odds, it's a gem after all.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#244

The situation described at the tradeshow in this article has also happened to me, repeatedly and consistently. The difference? I AM technical. I just also happen to be a woman. I love the tech industry. I've been in it professionally since 1997, and I've run tech startups as a CEO for the past 13 years. And if there's one thing I can count on, it's the consistent, pervasive assumption that I'm not technical. I hate g…

+1

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#245
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's also pretty much as white as they get. He has mostly European ancestry, little indigenous American ancestry. The subject was race, not nationality.

We were talking about "racism" and "racist jokes." If you don't think the fact that Louis CK is Mexican but everyone thinks he's American plays into why and how his comedy works, we can agree to disagree. :)

> If you don't think the fact that Louis CK is Mexican but everyone thinks he's American plays into why and how his comedy works, we can agree to disagree. :)

So how does his audience being ignorant of something, aid him in his comedy? How can it help him if people don't know of it?

Assume that they think he is a white American - then he looks like a typical white guy, making racist jokes (presumably, I've never seen them). The fact that he's really Mexican is not known to most people, so people will just think of him as a typical white American.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#246
That's crazy life you live in the Valley. We are nearly as remote from SF Bay Area as a place on Earth can possibly be (18 hour net flight time with two stops) and do not have many perks, but I would be very surprised to hear about a non-technical person being deprived of something because of being non-technical. Has do to something with our not-so-distant Soviet past, perhaps.

As far a job titles go, I read an article a day ago where the author suggested that when it comes to salary negotiation and you are not quite happy with the monetary part of the offer, you should at least demand a title that would show progress when put on your resume.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#247

The situation described at the tradeshow in this article has also happened to me, repeatedly and consistently. The difference? I AM technical. I just also happen to be a woman. I love the tech industry. I've been in it professionally since 1997, and I've run tech startups as a CEO for the past 13 years. And if there's one thing I can count on, it's the consistent, pervasive assumption that I'm not technical. I hate g…

I am a self-employed technical female as well but in my case I'm also a semi-recluse so my exposure to such things is greatly limited. Outside of being a developer I'm also known to occasionally fix my own cars and large appliances in lieu of taking them to be repaired.

In that context I have experienced similar issues but I chalk it up to people simply not being exposed enough to oddities like me. I am guilty of it too towards people I come across who break my mental image of how something "is."

For example, I live near Austin, Texas. I recently saw a really tall, very handsome black man wearing a cowboy hat and full-length duster. Certainly that's not the norm for me to see but not too incredibly odd either. That is until I heard him speak with the most refined British accent I'd ever heard in my life. I completely lost my composure and started viewing him if he were a novelty act. I have no doubt I was at least as much of an ass as the men you describe.

As other commenters have pondered, I wonder if these situations will actually start to decrease as the commonality of females in tech starts to increase.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile: * 93% of prisoners are male: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._incarceration_rates_1... * 92% of all occupational deaths are male: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_fatality * 84% of homeless people are male: http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/may/07/men-gen... The general statistical consensus is actually that men have higher variance in general. You're more likely as a man to be r…

Most car accidents are male, too. It doesn't mean they're bad drivers, it means that men drive longer distances, longer time than women. It's a matter of probability. The more you drive, the more you are likely to have an accident at some point. Match total men mileage and get the ratio accident/man.mile .. Then do the same for women. More accident for less driving. Numbers say another thing. If someone's a truck dri…

> It's a matter of probability. The more you drive, the more you are likely to have an accident at some point.

That was actually part of my point. I am not saying men are inferior, I am saying men are more likely to be in jobs where they have higher workplace hazards.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#249
post #241
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understood "only" to mean "most representative" as it made the most sense to me in this context (example: "she loved him as only a mother would"). But let's play by your set of rules. What would be something nobody but a coder would wear? Bonus question. If "clothing is signalling", what does a typical coder's outfit say about their ability to come up with non copy-paste solutions? Double bonus question. What do yo…

> What would be something nobody but a coder would wear? T-shirt with a programming joke is the easy answer. > Bonus question. If "clothing is signalling", what does a typical coder's outfit say about their ability to come up with non copy-paste solutions? What are you trying to say here? An outfit tells you what someone's into, not how good they are at it. > Double bonus question. What do you think of black coders,…

T-shirt with a programming joke is the easy answer.

I go to tech events and I never ever see anyone dressed in t-shirts with programming jokes on them (1). It's mostly the same ole sloppy t-shirt with jeans or chinos. So no, I am not going to wear the dorky scarlet letter all by my lonesome, thank you very much.

An outfit tells you what someone's into, not how good they are at it.

You mean, like, someone in a sloppy t-shirt and jeans is into complete and utter conformity?

At a typical tech event, most of the black people you meet are programmers. Most of the women you meet aren't.

Oh please. Most black people you see at a typical tech event are security and catering. As for the 2nd part of your statement, holy guacamole confirmation bias!

(1) For science, I just googled images for pycon, disrupt nyc, def con and finally just "hackathon" and nope, not a single programming joke t-shirt in sight. So your "easy answer" is anything but - you are asking women, and women only, to jump through extra hoops in order to get a seat at the proverbial table. Talk about a privileged, entitled stance.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#250
post #87
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find a field that has been woman-dominated for the last 50 years. Now put a man in that field, who is rather successful (like yourself in technology), and you will get the exact same result in the contexts you describe. I'm sick of this paradox where men and women are equal and yet men (and only men) are capable of making this mistake. It's simple pattern matching, and when the pattern tells you one thing and it's ac…

Srsly? Someone's gotta write a program to autopost the stats about men in nursing and men in elementary school teaching, and particularly the way they get promoted faster with less experience. (One source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennagoudreau/2012/05/21/a-new-o... ) And srsly? The continuing trope that it's "men who are sexist pigs" who are the problem rather than "people who persist in employing infantile patte…

Really? That article has no data. It only says: “When you look at senior management, you tend to see men disproportionately represented. So while there may be less than 5% of all nurses who are male, you see a much larger percentage than 5% in senior-level positions like hospital administrators.”

Which is understandable because administrator != higher level nurse. Most hospital administrators are MBAs, occasional MDs and RNs.

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