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Stop Generalizing About Europe

jonasbentzen.com

241–250 of 369 posts

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#241

I'm European and think this article is bunk. Hardly anyone (in western Europe at least) considers Russia to be a part of Europe.

I am Swedish and I believe most Swedes consider Russia to be part of Europe. Making generalizations about Europe or even Western Europe (something which did not exist before the cold war) is dangerous.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#242

This post feels awfully pedantic. While it may not be clear to non-Americans, when Americans talk about "Europe", they're generally talking about Western Europe, not Eastern, and are excluding the UK too. They almost certainly aren't including Russia. (Just like when Americans talk about Asia, they aren't usually thinking of India.) Of course, that's geographically inaccurate -- but it's what we usually mean. The Eur…

"Europe" can mean a number of different things depending upon the subject under discussion and which particular European one happens to be talking to. Which just reinforces the point that generalizing about Europe is not advisable.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was referring to your specific examples (Budapest, Egypt, Africa) as well as your thesis (Americans have certain finer-grained generalizations). Not saying your conclusions are incorrect, just that your only data point is yourself, even though you phrase your comments as though you had tons of data. Everything else is just speculation, gut feeling, pop psychology, outright invention etc.

Even if my particular examples are specific to myself, the point remains intact and true of the larger population. But really, India not being 'Asian' despite being in Asia is a readily observable American phenomenon. If you haven't noticed that, you either have not spent much time in America, or are deluding yourself. And can you really deny that Egypt is treated differently in popular culture than what is commonly…

Apologies if I am coming across as a curmudgeon. Although you do seem to have been missing my point.

I am not questioning the truth of your statements -- for all I know you may be right. I am questioning the form in which they are offered, in a discussion which is already rife with personal opinions disguised as fact. Everyone has an opinion; facts are harder to come by.

Specifically, I pointed out that when you say "most Americans", you are just (as you readily admit) extrapolating from yourself. Why not just say "I"? That seems more truthful. I can't reasonably claim to know what "most Americans "think, and neither should you, I think. Extrapolating is just another way of assuming.

Sorry about the tangent.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#244
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany has always been goods producer. UK has always been a trading nation Yeah, why has the UK then stopped trading? Btw., I live in a German Hansestadt, which for centuries has been trading with all the known world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League The UK can't trade with the US? Haha, what a joke. Let's face it: the UK has focused on its financial 'industry' and has sold products of questionable qu…

Indeed the UK had a couple of Hanseatic ports, in London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steelyard and King's Lynn. I don't understand people who think a trading nation can survive outside a free trade area either.

UK is outside of tree trade agreements with the Commonwealth (Australia, Canada, etc.) because of its free trade agreement (i.e. EU) with collapsing eurozone. That's not good business for them.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#245
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 or 3 of the countries in the UK are not "Anglo-Saxon" countries, but would be "Celtic" countries. :P Additionally the UK does elect and choose EU legislators, in the European Parliament & Council of Minsiters, European Commission, etc. etc.

Not to mention there is a distinct possibility that the UK will itself break up in the next few years.

The same goes for Spain, Belgium, Italy...

beyond funny - EU advocating continental unity causing break-down even such already small countries as Belgium. Even more funny - Von Rumpoy is from Belgium traveling continent advocating for unity, while his own small country is falling apart into pieces.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#246
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct regarding the reasons and wrong regarding the current situation. You will be much more spot-on if you divide between the "former USSR" and "rest of Europe". Former USSR countries are mostly unified by the same language, religion (or lack of) and culture. They used to be the same country... much alike the USA. "The rest of Europe" is now mostly part of (or willing to join) the European organizations like (but…

> Former USSR countries are mostly unified by the same language, religion (or lack of) and culture. They used to be the same country... much alike the USA. Wrong. There are significant Russian-speaking minorities in most of those countries, but they all have their own official language (with the exception of Russia [doh...] and Belarus, I believe). They all had them before WWII, Russian having been an imposition of t…

Iceland is actively trying to join the EU:

http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/Icelan...

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#247
post #54

I think a lot of us need to admit that the author is right. I, for one, do generalize about Europe. I think of social democracies with high taxes. I think of arcane rules and regulations to start and run a business. And most of all, I limit the term "Europe" to include about 20 of the 50 European countries. I will never think of Russia as a European country. If I entered a contest and won a vacation to "Europe" - and…

No european will include Russia in Europe. Except, of course, the important matters like gas, football and Eurovision. Same for Israel.

Europe traditionally stops at the Urals - so a considerable part of Russia, including Moscow, is very much part of Europe.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#248
post #75

Created an account just to state this: tech people please don't go into discussing politics / economics. Brits want to exit EU because of wars in the past? This is ridiculous! What about the real reasons: 1. Britain has 70% of its laws created by the EU by burocrats who were never voted into the office and can't be voted out of the office: Barroso (President of the European Commission) and Von Rumpoy (whatever his na…

> Germany has always been goods producer. UK has always been a trading nation Yeah, why has the UK then stopped trading? Btw., I live in a German Hansestadt, which for centuries has been trading with all the known world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League The UK can't trade with the US? Haha, what a joke. Let's face it: the UK has focused on its financial 'industry' and has sold products of questionable qu…

Wasn't it Hitler who called Brits 'a nation of shop-keepers' ?

What a trading nation would do is make a living of - for example - buying tea from India to sell across Europe. Not some low-level, small scale enterprise. That has never been the engine of the German economy. German trade has always been a by-product of craftsmanship and not its replacement.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Americans talk about Europe, they talk about Europe, this is the problem. Someone who knows Europe geographically and politically often means with "Western Europe" the European countries with a strong economy. (Why would you exclude UK?) Others might use this term to refer to all countries west of Poland. What I am saying is: even the term "Western Europe" is really unprecise. And even if you only talk about Wes…

not arguing, but your post made me think. When europeans talk about americans, do they mean north, south, both, or USA citizens ?

They almost always mean USA citizens. Although Canadians may be included too.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#250

Created an account just to state this: tech people please don't go into discussing politics / economics. Brits want to exit EU because of wars in the past? This is ridiculous! What about the real reasons: 1. Britain has 70% of its laws created by the EU by burocrats who were never voted into the office and can't be voted out of the office: Barroso (President of the European Commission) and Von Rumpoy (whatever his na…

Your opinion surprises me. Everyone else in the EU is pretty much convinced that the UK is just trying to eat the cake and have it.

IIRC, the UK has opted out of Schengen and the Euro. That would look OK to me were we not talking of two core EU projects that were supposed to be game changers.

Coming from a country that is currently under an European assistance program, I am not myself very fond of the "Chancellor", but your opinion seems to be purely based on the hatred for a particular country and simple anglophilia. It's clear that the EU must have common laws. And it's clear that if the EU is supposed to ever become a superpower in the economic and geopolitical sense, a free trade zone will not suffice.

Believe me, European laws don't please everyone. e.g. production quotas have seriously harmed economies that were highly reliant on agricultural production.

And regarding Greece... well, Greece has played foul from the beginning. Greek authorities have purposefully reported lower than reality deficit figure as early as 1999. Of course the EU failed there too, and I'm convinced that austerity measures are not the best solution for this mess. But saying that Greece is being "punished" because it has refused to follow a particular model is a clear exaggeration.

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