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Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

raymyers.org

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Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#241

Post by threatofrain »

woodruffw wrote: post #68
etdznots wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It’s a huge stretch to call Bun’s post slander. It’s a relatively bland technical post with an extremely contextual negative opinion about Zig. I read both posts, and didn’t leave the Bun one with a negative opinion of Zig. But I did leave the response post with that opinion.

Is it true that Jarred and the Bun team at large engaged in "outright fabrication" in professional business discussions? What do you think of that statement made by Andrew?

It was serious enough that Jarred showed up to post receipts with very little commentary, so as not to distract from the receipts. The charge of professional dishonesty is very strong.

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#242

Post by LtWorf »

woodruffw wrote: post #173
LtWorf wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yep. If anything, this ought to bias me against Anthropic. But I don’t share my employer’s opinions about everything, as I assume you don’t. (Edit: I don’t understand the relevant of these links, to be clear. PyPI is a PSF-hosted project, but that’s because PSF is a legal and fiscal umbrella, not because they pay me for my contributions to PyPI. They don’t.)

[flagged]

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#243

Post by jraph »

phoghed wrote: post #229
kqp wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthropic is massively bigger than a studio, Zig is massively smaller than Unity, and it wasn’t a quiet switch, it was a huge publicity event. It’s more like the #1 movie of the year being “The Profound Joy of Finally Leaving Unity”. Sometimes things are big enough to warrant a response.

It was a pull request and a blog post which HN et al. collectively foamed at the mouth about. You’re acting like Anthropic sunk millions into a marketing campaign.

For what we know, probably around $200,000 to run the rewrite and rewiew it, + whatever was involved in writing the blog post and advertise it.

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#244

Post by TeriyakiBomb »

sph wrote: post #128
RetroTechie wrote: post #97

There's so much good stuff in this post. Can't help to think of a recent HN post about most AI-generated projects being abandoned within months. Why? Because value of a project is not in the code produced. It's in the amount of battle-testing that code has seen. Battle-tested, mature code > fresh rewrite. Existing Zig codebase has seen X amount of battle-testing. Rust rewrite: 0 (except -I'm assuming- passing test su…

They get abandoned because they get generated on a whim. Sunk cost fallacy can be a feature: if you have spent a lot of blood, sweat, and tears on a project, you are more likely to push it through adversity and the doldrums that inevitably one will encounter. If all it took was one of those momentarily brilliant ideas and a prompt on Claude to produce something, there is no attachment whatsoever to it. Speaking as th…

A drum I've been banging increasingly often recently is that having friction and time to work ideas over in your mind adds huge amounts of value. Vibe coded projects have this very specific, well, vibe to them where you can clearly see that the lack of time to digest has allowed the person to not challenge their own worst impulses. You can see it in the feature bloat, the lack of depth and polish in core features and the wild asides you tend to talk yourself out of still on display.

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#245

Post by throwatdem12311 »

sph wrote: post #128
RetroTechie wrote: post #97

There's so much good stuff in this post. Can't help to think of a recent HN post about most AI-generated projects being abandoned within months. Why? Because value of a project is not in the code produced. It's in the amount of battle-testing that code has seen. Battle-tested, mature code > fresh rewrite. Existing Zig codebase has seen X amount of battle-testing. Rust rewrite: 0 (except -I'm assuming- passing test su…

They get abandoned because they get generated on a whim. Sunk cost fallacy can be a feature: if you have spent a lot of blood, sweat, and tears on a project, you are more likely to push it through adversity and the doldrums that inevitably one will encounter. If all it took was one of those momentarily brilliant ideas and a prompt on Claude to produce something, there is no attachment whatsoever to it. Speaking as th…

Maybe those ideas aren’t so brilliant.

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#246

Post by criley2 »

RetroTechie wrote: post #97

There's so much good stuff in this post. Can't help to think of a recent HN post about most AI-generated projects being abandoned within months. Why? Because value of a project is not in the code produced. It's in the amount of battle-testing that code has seen. Battle-tested, mature code > fresh rewrite. Existing Zig codebase has seen X amount of battle-testing. Rust rewrite: 0 (except -I'm assuming- passing test su…

Totally disagree that the value of a project is it's durability. The value of the project is almost entirely disconnected from durability. Value is simply the ability to solve a problem for you. I'll use a bad screwdriver before I use my fingers, even if I prefer good screwdrivers.

Claude Code was a vibe coded experiment, a "what if", that basically consumed software engineering in six months flat. Not because it's durable (it's not), but because the value it provided was so overwhelming.

People will use bad software if the value it provides is high. People will avoid the most durable and battle-tested software ever written if it doesn't actually provide value (solve a problem for them).

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#247

Post by phoghed »

jonkoops wrote: post #158
ozgrakkurt wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Andrew essentially wrote that “bun code was bad anyway”. And also he implied he doesn’t even want to engage with anything relating to this since Jarred is toxic and there is no value in the debate. I think these points are fairly clear from his blog post

> And also he implied he doesn’t even want to engage with anything relating to this since Jarred is toxic and there is no value in the debate. If he doesn't want to get involved, then why even write this piece?

He essentially was having a tantrum

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#249

Post by rafterydj »

stingraycharles wrote: post #144
laserbeam wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I'm glad he stayed honest to himself instead and didn't have a PR team ghostwrite his thoughts. If there's one thing I learned in this debacle is "I should spend 1-2 days and send to a close friend before hitting publish on a firey reply." The way Andrew rephrased the closing section is the kind of thing I should publish on the first edit in similar scenarios.

I also don’t really like his closing section, it has a big “sorry but not sorry” feeling to it.

I read that as him beginning the healing stages. Acknowledging his flaws as soon as he could even if he couldn't change what he already said - because that post did blow up, if he had taken the whole thing down it may have just exacerbated things.

Re: Zig Creator Calls Spade a Spade, Anthropic Blows Smoke

#250

Post by ungovernableCat »

pydry wrote: post #209
manphone wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the same reason why everyone doesn’t wanna read LLM generated blog posts. The agreement used to be generally that you would spend more time writing than I would have to spend reading and when the agreement changes the quality changes as well.

Or rather because they are always just of poor quality

If you had a time machine and you could republish a claude generated article about some interesting tech topic to 2010 I'm sure it would get ok engagement.

To me the issue is that everything becomes written in the same style pattern. I don't know why but if I spot it I wince internally and immediately skim the post or just outright stop reading. A large part of it is overexposure. For me it's made browsing the internet quite uncomfortable since it's unavoidable.

I mainly spend my online time in group chats these days.

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