Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

statnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 261 posts

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#241

Post by nekzn »

aziaziazi wrote: post #232
nekzn wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously. But you also need the time to cook and not to have the appetite of a 10 year old. The latter, from what I've observed, is quite common in grown adults.

What do you mean by "appetite of a 10yo” ? 10yo that are 75% vegan are not rare and the appetite comes with habits. Changing is far easier for a 10yo than a 75yo. Why "cook”? In a hurry I grab a can of bean, a carrot, a branch of celery, some rye bred and a square of tofu. No prep or tooling except a spoon for the beans. Something hot at the snack? Grab a veggie pad thaï, veggie pizza, veggie burger (with actual vegg…

I mean people who only eat stuff like nuggets and fries. That kind of thing. You’ll never see them eat a legume stew or roasted vegetables.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#242

Post by rsynnott »

robertlagrant wrote: post #233
Analemma_ wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My half-believed conspiracy theory is that "seed oils bad" is a psy-op from the corn/HFCS industries. I don't have hard data here, but it seemed like in the late 2010s people were converging on added sugar and especially HFCS as the thing which is truly messing up health. I can't help but wonder if the corn industry saw this, panicked, and began seeding (no pun intended) the seed oil meme among influencers. I don't h…

I was reading things[0] about sugar a lot earlier than that - maybe 2007? And it made a lot of sense back then. [0] https://nosdiet.com

Oh, I mean people have known that high-sugar diets are a bad idea for about a century, but you could argue that it started coming more into the public consciousness in the early 21st century.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#243

Post by rsynnott »

Aurornis wrote: post #24
declan_roberts wrote: post #11

> Back in the hospital, my patients are replacing olive oil with beef tallow This is a weird thing to call out since olive oil isn't a seed oil. Is the point that patients are confused? Does the author (a purported dietitian) not know this himself/herself?

The “seed oils” movement has grown beyond seed oils. People who follow seed oil influencers usually subscribe to a cluster of ideas. The superiority of beef tallow is one of them.

> People who follow seed oil influencers

“And what do you do?” [mutters] “What?” [shamefaced] “Misinformation about cooking oil on tiktok”

Like, honestly, how could anyone think this was a reasonable way to make a living?

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#244

Post by rsynnott »

seec wrote: post #216
array_key_first wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but that should probably be a red flag. I mean, we put sugar in everything because it makes everything taste awesome and, yeah. There's nothing wrong with using beef tallow or bacon fat in your cooking occasionally. I use bacon fat sometimes. But of course consuming saturated fat in excess is not good for you in the long run, so do it in moderation.

Yeah, as you say, the key point is moderation, always. I find it extremely unlikely that evolution got us to like foods that are supposedly that bad for us. Our palate is actually a tool for evaluation of what is consumable and has the nutrients we need. If you look at children not corrupted by ideologies, it will become extremely obvious that they naturally crave this stuff without any prompting. The problem just co…

> I find it extremely unlikely that evolution got us to like foods that are supposedly that bad for us.

… Yeah, on that basis you should consider following your beef tallow fries with a nice cigarette, and maybe a cheeky injection of heroin.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#246

Post by rsynnott »

ungreased0675 wrote: post #179
fabian2k wrote: post #5

The media and the scientific community are not set up for the situation where cranks with absurdly unscientific views are at the top of the major scientific and health authorities. RFK Jr. still gets too much benefit of the doubt for his initiatives when it is obvious that he is opposed to science and has views about health that are just outright dangerous. And we have the usual problem with this administration that…

The reason RFK resonated with people is because the highly credentialed experts were not producing favorable outcomes. Results have to matter, right? We’ll see how successful (or not) RFK’s policies are, but let’s not revise history to where things were great right before he came in and ruined everything.

“We told people what not to eat based on the research, and they ignored us, so instead we should tell them what not to eat based on the ravings of random podcasters” is not a reasonable approach.

There are approaches which seem to work (some combination of taxation, advertising bans, and mandatory warnings seems to basically have worked for tobacco, say), but they’d obviously be extremely unpalatable to industry. And they’re painfully slow; took decades for tobacco.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#247

Post by andyjohnson0 »

flowerthoughts wrote: post #188
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #80

"Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." - Michael Pollan

I don't know why, but this has always tickled me in a good way. It's like the best type of poetry. Extremely well phrased for my minimalist brain. And the opposite of Claude's commit messages. Maybe I should add this as an example in Claude.MD?

> Extremely well phrased for my minimalist brain.

Yes, short and to the point.

And the most important part of the message is in the first phrase: eat food - not edible stuff that isn't food.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#248

Post by port11 »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #236
port11 wrote: post #186

> My real worry about seed oil theory is that it’s a distraction. If you want to be healthier, we know ways you can change your diet that will help: Increase your overall diet “quality”. Eat lots of fruits and vegetables. Avoid processed food. Especially avoid processed meats. Eat food with low caloric density. Avoid added sugar. Avoid alcohol. Avoid processed food. > I know this is hard. You could even argue it’s un…

> we need to stop thinking of ‘magic bullets’ that’ll get us out of eating better I daresay that dietary fibre is likely the only 'magic bullet' that would improve people's diets and health. Or at least, non-processed fibre as some "food products" have cellulose/sawdust added to bump up the fibre figure.

And yet, increase consumption too much too quickly and you end up with influencers that talk about constipation and haemorrhoids, and how fibre causes IBS.

(I agree with your points btw.)

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#249

Post by prewett »

tpm wrote: post #238
ikidd wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've known people that think switching to fruit juice from sugar sodas was going to fix them; very much not. Doesn't matter where you get the sugar, sugar is sugar and is not good for you or your arteries or weight loss.

Yesterday I ate lots of sugar in the form of sweets. It happened during a 100km bike ride (against a strong headwind even) and I would otherwise bonk [0], so I'm pretty sure it was good for me, my arteries and my weight loss. And that's the issue with simple messaging like 'sugar bad'. 0. https://www.ride25.com/cycling-blog/bonking-birds-bees/

Citing a 100 km bike ride as a counter-example is not very helpful. Sure, technically, the parent was worded as an absolute statement, but I think a 100 km bike ride is such an outlier that it is irrelevant to a discussion about diet. The implicit assumption is that we are talking about relatively normal diets, and clearly biking 100 km is well outside normal.

Besides, are you sure that eating that sugar with more fiber would not have been better for you? And if not, perhaps a 100 km bike ride is far enough outside the body's design that you need to give it relatively pure glucose because the calorie requirements, if satisfied with more fibrous food, would not physically be able to contain the required calories. And I don't think the latter case is relevant to a discussion of general diet, even if the post lacked explicit qualifiers.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#250

Post by macartain »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #80

"Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." - Michael Pollan

100% - have always loved Mr Pollan's pithy summary. I also like Alan Goldhamer's (I am paraphrasing): "There are two types of cardiologist; vegans, and the ones who haven't studied the data yet."
Post reply on HN