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Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

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Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#241

Post by BLKNSLVR »

bux93 wrote: post #219

Here's my hot take: just get rid of bicycle bells and horns altogether. When's the last time you heard one and were usefully informed about some behavioral change to avoid accident? How often does that happen as opposed to needless use of the bell/horn, or not noticing it for whatever reason (let's be charitable and exclude use of ANC headphones, but include general noise levels and boy-who-cried-wolf). How often is…

Bike bells are useful for me most weekends to let me know there's a bike soon to overtake me while I'm skating.

Headphones on folks while they're out walking is ridiculous and antisocial and if they get hit because they didn't hear a bell then they had it coming. I only use a single earbud at a time so I don't lose my situational awareness entirely, but even that can still wash out the rest of the world noise pretty well.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#242

Post by serial_dev »

0x3f wrote: post #116

Do horns and bells really prevent accidents? In order for e.g. a horn to work you need enough time that the driver processes the situation and decides the horn will communicate something AND enough time for the pedestrian or whatever to process that and react to it. Generally it's a lot easier just to press the brake, and more importantly be travelling at a speed and in a manner where the brake is sufficient. Structu…

It's not only about preventing accidents (but I do believe it prevents some to attempt answering your question).

It's also about signaling to someone that they might be doing something wrong or they might not be paying attention. For pedestrians it takes significantly less time and distance to stop, for cars, trams, and bicycles, it takes longer.

It happens all the time that pedestrians don't know the customs of a country, they don't recognize bike lines... in that case the cyclists do not need to pump the breaks anytime a clueless tourist gets in front of them... they can ring the bell, signaling:

"yo, it's not how we do it here, please watch out, I'm coming full speed and you are in the wrong, so please look up from your phone and stop right there".

I also had the luck to meet some people thinking they can be on their phone while cycling, drifting into my lane, etc... In that case, a bell is also adequate

"hey, please stop writing a text message while you are on your bike blazing through the city, you are driving as if you were drunk, pay attention please and stop multitasking (you moron)"

If nothing works to change their behavior, of course I'll try my best and hit the brakes safely, but I'd prefer they learned how to move around in the city safely.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#244

Post by BLKNSLVR »

fnands wrote: post #66
linzhangrun wrote: post #53

[flagged]

This is more aimed to warn pedestrians who wear ANC headphones. Should people be prohibited from wearing headphones while walking?

If they're walking on a pathway that's shared with bikes and other wheeled transport of speeds greater than walking, then yes.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#245

Post by macintux »

CalRobert wrote: post #236

This may also be of interest to people - emulating a car horn for bikes https://loudbicycle.com/ (of course, there's also the locomotive horn, but the equipment required is a bit impractical - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTQSWtK65PE )

I've periodically toyed with the idea of adding a locomotive horn to my motorized vehicle, but I'd be afraid that using it would cause an accident.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#246

Post by chimpanzee2 »

upofadown wrote: post #171

Seems to be some misunderstanding of what bike bells are for here... A bell is helpful in a situation where a pedestrian is not aware of an approaching bike. The bell informs the pedestrian of two things: 1. That there is an approaching bike. 2. Roughly were the bike is approaching from. The hope is that the pedestrian will then behave in a predictable way to allow a safe pass by the bike. In almost all cases the ped…

Not sure I understand your criticism.

Yes, bike bells are for pedestrians to hear.

Problem: Pedestrians today wear ANC noise cancelling, thus being unable to hear approaching bikes' bells.

Skoda: We made a bell with a frequency usually not cancelled by ANC, so these pedestrians still hear it.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#247

Post by prmoustache »

eigenspace wrote: post #187
walletdrainer wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If im cycling through a shared space, I find it extremely rude to ring the bell, because it feels like I'm telling people to get out of my way, but they have just as much right to a shared path as I do. It’s certainly rude to ring the bell in a aggressive manner, but many bells are capable of producing much softer, more polite sounds. In super busy old European capitals I find that people increasingly just ride aro…

I still think that ringing bells at people is a little rude, regardless of the tone. Like imagine if you were at the grocery store, blocking the isle and someone lightly chimed a bell at you instead of just saying "excuse me". IMO if I'm in a dense pedestrian zone and I can't go around people and I can't communicate by voice, it means I'm going too fast.

I don't agree with the former, a bell is not rude if you actuate it in advance from far enough. I do that if I see people about to cross my path but looking somewhere else or if there are kids wandering because I know that kids tend to be imprevisible, are often not very aware of their surrounding and have a smaller field of view. If you are just a handful of meters from them, it is just too late to ring a bell, you should have slowed down already anyway.

There is nothing to be done against old people using noise so I just prepare to stop.

Still agree on the second statement.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#248

Post by throw83940449 »

michael1999 wrote: post #222
0x3f wrote: post #116

Do horns and bells really prevent accidents? In order for e.g. a horn to work you need enough time that the driver processes the situation and decides the horn will communicate something AND enough time for the pedestrian or whatever to process that and react to it. Generally it's a lot easier just to press the brake, and more importantly be travelling at a speed and in a manner where the brake is sufficient. Structu…

There are a lot of runners on mixed use paths wearing headphones these days. They are an absolute danger to overtaking bikes. A bell they would hear would be useful.

Pedestrians are not danger, they are victims! Cyclist should slow down, while performing dangerous overtaking, and not crash into them! Same rules like with cars!

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#249

Post by sunrunner »

everdrive wrote: post #231

It's hard for me to understand why people choose to walk around in public wearing headphones. I'm aware that it's incredibly common, but you put yourself at risk of theft, accident, and of course the mild hearing loss that accompanies _any_ frequent headphone usage. In the case of both theft and accident, you cannot hear your assailant coming, and miss the queues that would otherwise keep you safe.

I know a few people that simply wear headphones to help with managing sensory overload, so I wouldn't assume that having headphones on is a guarantee of listening to something (though still likely to be strongly correlated).

As far as assailants, a skilled ninja wouldn't be detected even if their target weren't wearing headphones...

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#250

Post by macintux »

eigenspace wrote: post #187
walletdrainer wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If im cycling through a shared space, I find it extremely rude to ring the bell, because it feels like I'm telling people to get out of my way, but they have just as much right to a shared path as I do. It’s certainly rude to ring the bell in a aggressive manner, but many bells are capable of producing much softer, more polite sounds. In super busy old European capitals I find that people increasingly just ride aro…

I still think that ringing bells at people is a little rude, regardless of the tone. Like imagine if you were at the grocery store, blocking the isle and someone lightly chimed a bell at you instead of just saying "excuse me". IMO if I'm in a dense pedestrian zone and I can't go around people and I can't communicate by voice, it means I'm going too fast.

On shared use trails, I suspect your voice might give out (especially given the headphone status of most pedestrians) and a bicycle bell is less ambiguous than a voice, which could be a fast walker, a runner, or a bicyclist.
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