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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#241

Post by bluGill »

groundzeros2015 wrote: post #170
grouchomarx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics That and also it's just a bad product. >That said, even though it's not to my taste, I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one edit: agree there's a market…

> pickup truck should just be max utility Except the main demographic buying F150s is suburban dads driving to their office job.

And using the truck on weekends to tow the boat, or do other work with it. Not every weekend, but once a month in summer.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#242

Post by doctorpangloss »

nebula8804 wrote: post #151
ortusdux wrote: post #36

I think the dealership monopoly is partly to blame. Dealers get more reoccurring revenue from ICE vehicles, so they are incentivized to not stock EVs and to steer customers away from them. Ford seemed to understand this and attempted a direct sale program for EVs, but they canceled it due to dealer pushback. https://fordauthority.com/2025/02/ford-ev-inventory-hub-syst...

They seem to be flooded on dealership lots and are not selling whatsoever. OEMs force dealers to take the crap vehicles if they are to get the good ones. You have a vehicle that started off as a hard sell to the crowd that normally buys the vehicle and then you make it so the price is astronomical...forget the dealer reluctance, what did you think was going to happen? [1]: https://youtu.be/F0SIL-ujtfA?t=532

Yeah I mean the obvious problem is that consumers specifically want to buy new ICE cars.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#243

Post by Uvix »

ceejayoz wrote: post #144
IncreasePosts wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually enjoy doing road trips in my tesla more so than in ICEs, because of the forced breaks. With ICEs, stops would be either for food or for bathroom breaks. A lot of times just eating in the car while driving. But for a 10 hour drive I am forced to take 4 20 minute stops - so once every 2 hours. This ends up making me feel a lot better at the end of the trip and also gives you "guilt free" time to enjoy a rand…

This calculation gets even better when you count “never have to go to a gas station except during long distance travel”. Those minutes add up!

The minutes add up, but it only takes one long distance trip to burn months or years of gas station time saved.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#244

Post by sejje »

shortstuffsushi wrote: post #69
everdrive wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heartbreaking but true. The most popular pickups today are not the most useful pickups. There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US. Pickups are a little bit interesting in this regard. For any given model (eg: Tacoma, Frontier, etc.) the more premium the truck, the worse it is at being a truck. Each feature you add reduces its payload, and in the case of the Frontier, you could drop fr…

> There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US. What makes you say this? The F-150 series has a pretty serviceable option in their XL trim. 8ft bed, 4x4, "dumb" interior (maybe not, looking at their site looks like the most recent is iPad screen, sigh) - but what else would you look for to call it utilitarian? You're right that each feature is further limiting, but I would argue premium…

Manual gearbox, triangle vent windows, engine bay room, repairability, bench seats.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#246

Post by bluGill »

olyjohn wrote: post #212
jeff_skj wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except most people also use trucks as daily driver vehicles. You can't exactly fit the wife and kids in a kei. Sure you could also own a car for that but now I need to own/store 2 vehicles instead of one.

Yeah let's not pretend every family with a truck only owns one vehicle. Most families already have a second car anyways. Especially people spending $60k+ on a truck.

That is my argument for EVs as well. One truck with an ICE for take the whole family on long trips, or towing. Then an EV for everyone else - whoever is making the long trip that day gets the truck.

Truck works well for those role because it can do so much. It isn't the best for most of those, but it can do them.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#247

Post by zaphoyd »

pixl97 wrote: post #168
catigula wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I mostly trim my hedges, but sometimes, very rarely, need to cut down small trees, am I best served by simply owning a hedge-trimmer and renting a chainsaw or other appropriate tool when necessary, or by buying a katana for both jobs? Everybody knows why you bought the katana. We know you have a story to tell yourself, it's just not convincing.

> and renting a chainsaw or other appropriate tool when necessary, I don't think most people realize how expensive and time consuming tool rental is. This is where things also get kind of messy in the US. In manicured suburbs you probably don't need a chainsaw. But in older growth and places with larger lots you really do need one. If you wait till you need one after a big storm, you may travel 100 miles out of the s…

We recently moved to a more rural location that has needed more tools. It is shocking just how expensive and inconvenient it is to rent tools (and even vehicles to some extent) and just how much worse it is being even just a little bit rural.

The big box store in our town doesn't rent tools or vehicles. You have to drive 45-60 minutes to get to a store that does. This means the 4 hour rental prices (which for something like a wood chipper or chain saw might be sufficient for a lot of jobs) become nearly non-viable or highly stressful rushing through unfamiliar power equipment that really shouldn't be rushed.

A full day tool rental is often 1/3 to 1/2 of the price of a new mass market version of the tool. A week rental is almost always more. The tools are rarely in great shape. You are almost always way better off going to an estate sale or local marketplace and buying a used tool. If there is a job you end up doing 2-3 times or need for more than a week its even cost effective to just buy new ones. You save so much on labor doing things yourself that even with new tools you basically always come out ahead.

The best case is that you have a community run tool library that lets you check stuff out cheaply for a week and can have a relationship with the folks that run it. Similarly, getting to know the neighbors and being able to swap/borrow stuff. For vehicles this is a little more dicey because of liability & insurance issues.

We've definitely struggled with the vehicle for long and sheet goods. We really don't need a pickup truck and it would honestly be a hazard on skinny mountain roads... but we do need to move lumber, sheet goods, appliance sized things just enough that it's a pain without one. We settled on a midsized SUV with passable towing power (as an aside, EV power and control makes towing a breeze as long as your round trip fits in one charge). Renting a trailer is still annoying, but at least can be done close by. For larger orders delivery can sometimes be cost effective (vs renting a vehicle or buying and maintaining a truck) especially because places often subsidize delivery to win business.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#249

Post by alistairSH »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #138
MostlyStable wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can do a ten hour road trip with a family of four plus a dog in a used (2022) EV that I got for ~30k last year. I think the idea that price and range are problems is exactly the misconception that op was taking about. They are somewhat more expensive, although when I originally did the calculus, fuel savings made up the difference in monthly payments for a new vehicle, but that's going to vary a lot. The is a very…

I actually enjoy doing road trips in my tesla more so than in ICEs, because of the forced breaks. With ICEs, stops would be either for food or for bathroom breaks. A lot of times just eating in the car while driving. But for a 10 hour drive I am forced to take 4 20 minute stops - so once every 2 hours. This ends up making me feel a lot better at the end of the trip and also gives you "guilt free" time to enjoy a rand…

For me, it's some intermediate trips where the EV really "fails" (though admittedly the gap closes every year and the use case below is basically a worst case scenario short of trying to tow trailer on the same route).

A common trip for me is DC -> Dolly Sods WV for camping. Less than 3 hours drive time each way, about 150 miles. I only need to stop for gas once during the trip and for only as long as the tank takes to fill (no meal needed).

In an EV, that ~6 hour round-trip takes about 9 hours due to 2 hours of charging and a 60 mile detour. That's using ABRP, with an Ioniq 5 from Reston VA to Dolly Sods Wilderness and back, no overnight charging because it's a wilderness location (gravel parking lot in the middle of nowhere).

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#250

Post by jeffbee »

bluGill wrote: post #241
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pickup truck should just be max utility Except the main demographic buying F150s is suburban dads driving to their office job.

And using the truck on weekends to tow the boat, or do other work with it. Not every weekend, but once a month in summer.

There are 5x more households with trucks than households with boats, so this hardly explains it.
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