Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant • Hacker News Board

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#241

Post by stinkbeetle » Wed, Oct 08, 2025, 7:42 AM UTC

tvier wrote: post #237

stinkbeetle wrote: post #230

I think countries with division and low social trust and cohesion necessarily require increasingly authoritarian measures from the government to hold them together. Increasing dependence on government for their own security will reduce peoples' ability to question and change the government. One might think it's all part of the plan. Real freedom and self determination has been a fleeting blink of an eye in the histor…

The power given to the masses vs the ruling class is always in flux. The light may go out, but it won't be forever. I'm also hopeful that the requirement for a well educated workforce will nudge societies towards more freedom than the historical norm.

> The power given to the masses vs the ruling class is always in flux. The light may go out, but it won't be forever.

Impossible to be so sure.

> I'm also hopeful that the requirement for a well educated workforce will nudge societies towards more freedom than the historical norm.

"The educated" have been among the most susceptible to authoritarian tendencies and propaganda, so I would not be too hopeful of that.

https://jacobin.com/2022/10/chahla-chafiq-iranian-left-khome...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Guards

https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/pot_pol.shtml

Also there have been demonstrated to be other ways around the problem of educated population. Divide them against other classes of the population for example. Or subsidize and encourage non-productive people.

And even if everyone was educated and wanted better, how would they ever vote for more individual rights and freedoms if the suppression of those rights is the only thing keeping them safe from other groups in their country?

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#242

Post by logicchains » Wed, Oct 08, 2025, 7:54 AM UTC

hagbard_c wrote: post #75

logicchains wrote: post #61

Americans like to say the first amendment relies on the second amendment, or as Mao Zedong put it, political power grows from the barrel of a gun. When I was younger I thought it was exaggerated, but now it seems like there really are fewer and fewer countries where you can criticise your government online without facing legal repercussions. If things continue at the current rate, in 5-10 years America might be the o…

> as long as you don't criticise Israel Eh? You can criticise Israel all you want. Some people might not agree and start pointing fingers at you but go ahead and criticise.

In America you can lose your visa or government job for doing so.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#243

Post by logicchains » Wed, Oct 08, 2025, 7:55 AM UTC

ulrashida wrote: post #102

logicchains wrote: post #61

Americans like to say the first amendment relies on the second amendment, or as Mao Zedong put it, political power grows from the barrel of a gun. When I was younger I thought it was exaggerated, but now it seems like there really are fewer and fewer countries where you can criticise your government online without facing legal repercussions. If things continue at the current rate, in 5-10 years America might be the o…

Why do you think Canadians are restricted from criticizing government?

The premise of most of the comments here is that individuals in the Canadian government may use this new power to disconnect their critics from the internet.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#244

Post by johnnienaked » Wed, Oct 08, 2025, 8:00 AM UTC

Out with a whimper

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#245

Post by sofixa » Wed, Oct 08, 2025, 8:02 AM UTC

dustbunny wrote: post #124

gpm wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At best you could compare them to fox news, but they don't compare favourably even to that. They are admittedly maybe not quite as bad as Breitbart but it's close enough in my opinion.

What is a more respected conservative publication in Canada?

Are there any, anywhere in the developed world? Le Figaro in France might count, but pracically every explicitly socially conservative media I can think of has had at least some suspicious events that have lowered or destroyed its reputation.

Be it Fox News lying and then claiming they're entertainment, not news, so they're allowed to lie; The Telegraph giving a soapbox to various climate skeptics and COVID deniers and having to retract them, or publishing flat out lies by folks like Boris Johnson; the Sun needs no explanation; Sky News Australia (same owner as Fox News) having a "Misinformation and conspiracy theories" section on their Wikipedia; etc.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#246

Post by johnnienaked » Wed, Oct 08, 2025, 8:02 AM UTC

tdb7893 wrote: post #125

rock_artist wrote: post #53

We live in very confusing times. Democratic countries start acting more and more like big brother. Its also concerning to read the quote: “necessary to do so to secure the Canadian telecommunications system against any threat, including that of interference, manipulation, disruption or degradation.” Where Canadian telecommunication is almost a duopoly and had major outage a few years ago without any claims of bad act…

So it has been on the upswing recently but my understanding is that in the US we have been doing pretty much as much surveillance as technology (and also generally the 4th amendment) practically allows since at least WWII, and especially during the Cold War. Many law abiding people opposed to government policy (e.g. civil rights leaders or anti-war activists) have always been surveilled with dubious cause. This isn't…

True but it's never been as overt

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#247

Post by zarzavat » Wed, Oct 08, 2025, 8:14 AM UTC

Compared to the 90s, all the systems that existed to live without the internet have disappeared or been degraded. There are no more paper phone books or phone booths for example. If I want to apply for various government services I have to do so online, in the 90s there were paper forms.

I don't know how digitised the Canadian government is, but banning people from accessing the government is cruel.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#248

Post by worthless-trash » Wed, Oct 08, 2025, 8:22 AM UTC

annexrichmond wrote: post #193

nick__m wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Globe and Mail is a reputable and respectable publication but The National Post is an American-owned right wing propaganda paper. I won't apologize for calling them as I see them.

The G&M is a left-wing propaganda paper. What's your point?

I guess his point is, nick aint sorry.. guess that means something to nick that doesn't apply to most readers.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#249

Post by hggggggff » Wed, Oct 08, 2025, 8:23 AM UTC

Awesomedonut wrote: post #208

hagbard_c wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as long as you don't criticise Israel Eh? You can criticise Israel all you want. Some people might not agree and start pointing fingers at you but go ahead and criticise.

Not sure why this is downvoted, plenty of Canadians are very vocal and public with their criticism of Israel. There are protests regularly happening on the streets.

[flagged]

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#250

Post by curtisf » Wed, Oct 08, 2025, 9:15 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #179

trollbridge wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current “workaround” to the 4th amendment is to simply have private companies who do surveillance and then buy bulk data from them. ICE does this with location data from mobile apps. They simply buy from a private vendor the information about where specific people are. Then they go detain them. Some real life friends of mine are on a work crew with some migrants. ICE pulled their truck over, asked the migrants to…

If you are an illegal immigrat how do you even get a mobile phone contract though? In every country I know a valid ID is required to get one.

The United States is a country that doesn't require any form of identification to have a phone number. You can buy a "burner phone" at any Walmart, with prepaid minutes and no contract, in cash.