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We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

thenexus.media

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Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#241

Post by anigbrowl »

corimaith wrote: post #204
platevoltage wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely works the same way. There are would be doctors everywhere who never got the chance because of their parent's mistakes, or misfortunes, because we've made higher education a privilege in the country.

At this point of extrapolating from second-order/third-order effects, what dosen't count as "social credit" to you? It seems that if society dosen't give everything you want, that's seen as coercion. The actual distinction here is between positive/negative rights. In OP's case, it's if even if you do have the money to do X thing, you are artifically not allowed to do so. That's a violation of negative rights. In your…

In your case, you're positing that if you couldn't afford it anyways, it's "social credit" if private lenders don't give you help because you have a history of not paying loans back.

Please read it again. It was hypothesized that you could have a hard time getting a college loan if your parents had bad credit. Now, you could construct an argument for why that policy makes sense for credit issuers, such as 'statistics show that 87% of debtors' children go on to become debtors themselves'. But the underlying objection was that you shouldn't need to go into debt to get access to higher education in the first place, ie college should not be insanely expensive and you should be able to manage the academic and financial demands with a part time job.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#242

Post by treyd »

hax0ron3 wrote: post #236
pharrington wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of what ICE has been doing for the last six months? And that Trump has militarized Washington DC?

Yes, but ICE is not deporting, denaturalizing, or imprisoning US citizens for their political opinions, and I would have very little to no fear about going to Washington DC right now, standing up on a podium, and yelling that Trump sucks while there are 100 National Guardsmen across the street from me. This is very different from what things are like in places like Russia.

See Mahmoud Khalil's case. They're trying to and would continue to have done so if they weren't blocked. What is there stopping them from changing the rules and doing it again?

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#243

Post by Swenrekcah »

potato3732842 wrote: post #212
Swenrekcah wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The larger problem is that the owner of the credit scheme, whether a corporation or a government, can use it to punish people and depending on the scheme effectively making people social outcasts, without any due process.

Due process isn't some silver bullet. Jim crow, witch trials, they all followed due process. But yeah it's better than some capricious bureaucrat just pulling decisions out their ass with no serious recourse, except all those cases there the process is just that.

Nothing in the world is perfect. Breathing and eating are no silver bullets for staying alive because sometimes people choke on their food and they could also breath toxic fumes. Still it's a pretty solid choice to keep doing both.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#244

Post by treyd »

card_zero wrote: post #123
mlinhares wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, there's no increase in disorder, crime in most developed countries is trending down, but we do have a bunch of people that have collected unimaginable wealth and are definitely afraid something will happen to them like the last couple times this has happened. They definitely don't want to repeat history and will use the coercion tools they have to clamp down on the peasants.

> afraid something will happen to them Because of what, the decrease in crime?

Because of the increase in wealth inequality and increase in peoples' desperation.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#245

Post by Capricorn2481 »

hax0ron3 wrote: post #236
pharrington wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of what ICE has been doing for the last six months? And that Trump has militarized Washington DC?

Yes, but ICE is not deporting, denaturalizing, or imprisoning US citizens for their political opinions, and I would have very little to no fear about going to Washington DC right now, standing up on a podium, and yelling that Trump sucks while there are 100 National Guardsmen across the street from me. This is very different from what things are like in places like Russia.

It's exactly these comments the OP is talking about. This is what they are trying to do, what they said they would do, and it's the kind of authoritarian shit that Trump has publicly praised and envied Putin for.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#246

Post by anigbrowl »

ch4s3 wrote: post #206
esseph wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go into a busy gas station in the US. Ask "Hey, is anybody here a felon?" (Doesn't matter if customer or if they're working there)

Only about 6% of Americans have felony records as of 2023.

That's a lot, about 2025 million people! And while many felons deserve their prison terms, those who have been released have an extremely steep hill to climb to get functional in society again. I feel like there's probably some correlation with recidivism rates.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#247

Post by decremental »

freeone3000 wrote: post #222
danny_codes wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I live in the US and people are getting persecuted right now for being a minority, being politically active, or being in legal trouble. So not seeing a huge difference between liberal democracies and authoritarians.

Perhaps the US is no longer a liberal democracy?

[dead]

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#248

Post by maxerickson »

otterley wrote: post #35
wvenable wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always move to new town and start again. The problem with all these social credit systems is that they're designed to follow you wherever you go forever. There is also zero recourse if a mistake was made; at least you can try and smooth things over with a bartender.

> You can always move to new town and start again. Contra: "Wherever you go, there you are." (i.e., you don't stop being an asshole just because you move.)

And also, many places are big enough that you don't need to move, just go to the place a few blocks over.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#249

Post by tecleandor »

corimaith wrote: post #136
tecleandor wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't care until the corporation is big enough or starts crossing information with enough companies. Amazon already owns healthcare companies. Facebook has shared more information than we can think about with all sort of parties. One day you'll be denied care or your insurance premiums will quadruple because you buy too much sweets in Amazon, or because you once said you fell off a chair while drunk in a party in…

Then we'll vote in legislation to break up Amazon. You're assuming the hypothetical worst case in capitalism, but applying the same to the government it's going to be a far more difficult situation if the government is doing the same.

A: Amazon break up is years due already. B: I haven't said the government should do it instead.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#250

Post by dijit »

corimaith wrote: post #115
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

Well, day to day life is similar until it isn't, then you realize you have no options. Your life is nothing more than bubbles in the pond.

Thats exactly the parents point.

You only realise you can’t do something when you come into contact with trying to do it. Otherwise you live your life blissfully unaware of how free you arent.

Its like how you feel that driving is safer than flying, despite driving being the most dangerous thing most people do… you only realise how dangerous it is when its too late.

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