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Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

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Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#241

Post by hasnd »

Epa095 wrote: post #130
knowaveragejoe wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unintuitive how, but it probably would cause prices to go haywire.

It could, at least temporarily. But there is no reason to belive it won't stabilise again. Increased demand without increased production will increase prices. But then producers will follow, and production will increase, and prices will stabilise. Increased tax on the rich and distributing it to poor moves a tiny bit of the combined 'voting power' we have over production as consumers to the poor, so there will be sli…

If they could produce more they already would.

The only way of fixing this is decreasing demand by reducing the population numbers.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#242

Post by [deleted] »

gruez wrote: post #162
Epa095 wrote: post #138

I encourage everyone to do the following simple exercise: look at the main stock market in your country, and see how far back you must go for the main index to be half of what it is today. The answer is probably somewhere between 5 and 7 years. Then find salary statistics, and see how much the average salary has increased in the same time. The answer is probably somewhere between 20 and 30%. And it really is as simpl…

>And it really is as simple as that. It really isn't, because your "simple" comparison is bunk. For one, it's measuring stock vs flow. Stock prices measure stock, eg. the size of a piggy bank. Salaries measure flow, eg. your annual salary. Directly comparing the two results is meaningless. It's easy to demonstrate this with the piggy bank example. If your salary was 50k/year, you saved 5k/year, then your piggy bank w…

[deleted]

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#243

Post by deadbabe »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #192
garciasn wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at the name of each of the primary groups in the US: - Progressives - Moderates - Conservatives Progressives, by definition, want 'progress'. Conversely, Conservatives do NOT want progress; if anything, they want regression and thus their desire to roll everything back done in the name of Progress(ives). Moderates just want to play both sides and find some sort of middle ground; something that doesn't reall…

This is not the right framing. The left vs right battle was invented so people wouldn't think about the up vs down battle. It's wealthy people vs everyone else but the wealthy people convinced everyone else that it's red vs blue.

This is also overly simplified. It suggests the battlefield is on a two axis graph but really there’s 3 dimensions.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#244

Post by 93po »

donatj wrote: post #184
Epa095 wrote: post #138

I encourage everyone to do the following simple exercise: look at the main stock market in your country, and see how far back you must go for the main index to be half of what it is today. The answer is probably somewhere between 5 and 7 years. Then find salary statistics, and see how much the average salary has increased in the same time. The answer is probably somewhere between 20 and 30%. And it really is as simpl…

It’s really not that simple. - Populations have grown in the last 7 years. Workforces have changed. - Stocks rise on hype, debt, and low interest rates — not from actual value or work done. - Borders are porous. Cheap labor moves. - Companies come and go. And there's far more to it than that. Saying it is "really that simple" is nothing but call to outrage.

it doesnt really matter if there are bars of gold to backup the value of a company's market cap. the point is that you can sell the shares for money, and to further emphasize this, you're literally taxed on that gain just like income tax (though annoyingly much lower, which further reinforces mistreatment of working class).

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#245

Post by ffsm8 »

potato3732842 wrote: post #222
cameldrv wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a flow, here you go: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A053RC1Q027SBEA Corporate profits in the U.S. have almost doubled since 2019.

All these "doubled since 2015/2019/20whatever" stats tie back to a dirty word that starts win In and ends with "flation" And, as everyone who wasn't lying for various reasons predicted and anyone can see by looking at prior comparable events in history can tell you, wages are one of the last things to go up.

You do realize that inflation hits at least as much for employees though right? (Likely even more, because all things equal, you're still better off if numbers are bigger)

If anything, you'd be strengthening cameldrv and Epa095s point...

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#246

Post by self_awareness »

piva00 wrote: post #211
self_awareness wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can use the "poverty line" definition to separate people who will get grants (below the line), and people who will pay for the grants (above the line). So being just barely above the line means that you pay, not that you get. This is the worst place to be in. Also, a lot of sane US citizens seem to use the "poor" word to describe someone who is not able to get the newest model of iphone. That's why it's gen…

> So being just barely above the line means that you pay, not that you get. This is the worst place to be in. Why do you think that's how it would work? That's the most simplistic way of thinking about it, instead try to apply the same model of progressive taxation in reverse, you get less benefits the more you earn up to a threshold. Or just implement some form of UBI, there are many models for it as well.

Or we do communism, the right way this time.

Last time I've seen communism being implemented the right way was the CHOP/CHAZ in Seattle. It ended up with some actual warlord taking a gun and killing some people. In the middle of the city.

Also, who do you think would pay for the UBI. It's not like UBI is some solution that was even implemented anywhere.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#247

Post by 93po »

ambicapter wrote: post #157
Epa095 wrote: post #138

I encourage everyone to do the following simple exercise: look at the main stock market in your country, and see how far back you must go for the main index to be half of what it is today. The answer is probably somewhere between 5 and 7 years. Then find salary statistics, and see how much the average salary has increased in the same time. The answer is probably somewhere between 20 and 30%. And it really is as simpl…

What is sickeningly upsetting is how difficult it seems to be for our news organizations and talking heads to talk openly about this fact.

its not difficult - it's that they very clearly HATE class consciousness. just look back at occupy wallstreet. it got coverage that was nearly universally mocking it and sneering at it, and the second they were able to ignore it and pretend it didnt exist anymore, corporate news moved on.

everything is framed as us-vs-them in corporate news, and its usually one political party against another, and it's usually for stuff that doesn't impact us nearly as much as wealth and income inequality, campaign finance reform, or general election methodology reform. this is why establishment hated bernie, it's one of his biggest talking points.

corporate news is garbage, its owned by billionaires literally to control the narrative. you think bezos bought WaPo to make money? of course not, it's a money pit.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#249

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

Epa095 wrote: post #138

I encourage everyone to do the following simple exercise: look at the main stock market in your country, and see how far back you must go for the main index to be half of what it is today. The answer is probably somewhere between 5 and 7 years. Then find salary statistics, and see how much the average salary has increased in the same time. The answer is probably somewhere between 20 and 30%. And it really is as simpl…

Why would stock market valuation be a good metric? If Walmart's valuation doubled in that period, does it mean they sold twice as many goods? How could salaries hope to double, if the things people buy with salaries didn't also double? Did Ford's vehicle sales double in that period?

If these things aren't happening, then what would be the point of salaries doubling? If they gave me a raise tomorrow of $150k, that'd be great. I'd be sitting pretty. But if they gave all of us an extra $150k starting tomorrow, none of us would be better off materially... the inflation would eat up any gain whatsoever.

The only reason the stock market valuations don't do this is because the vast majority of us aren't buying stocks. That money's illusory. So no, it's not "really as simple as that". For all this supposed productivity that you claim, there's not been any significant increase in product.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#250

Post by Ntrails »

username332211 wrote: post #214
Epa095 wrote: post #138

I encourage everyone to do the following simple exercise: look at the main stock market in your country, and see how far back you must go for the main index to be half of what it is today. The answer is probably somewhere between 5 and 7 years. Then find salary statistics, and see how much the average salary has increased in the same time. The answer is probably somewhere between 20 and 30%. And it really is as simpl…

On the 8th of August 2018, the FTSE 350 closed at 4320. The current level is 4980 giving us a 7-year rate of return of around 15%. I assume the United Kingdom of Great Britain must be a paradise for the workers, right?

> I assume the United Kingdom of Great Britain must be a paradise for the workers, right?

As a proud citizen and indeed worker of ol' Blighty I assure you it's a paradise of unequalled benevolence. Every worker a member of the board.

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