Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses • Hacker News Board

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#241

Post by okdood64 » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 5:29 PM UTC

paulgerhardt wrote: post #14

Missed opportunity to talk about the locals creative responses to this. One cafe in Tokyo is asking customers to leave negative reviews on Google and Trip Advisor to prevent over exposure (it mostly works but made me curious enough to visit). Another specific $10 Michelin guide ramen restaurant only lets you order from a vending machine outside using a payment method you can’t access as a foreigner (one needs a physi…

> And a few more of the seedier bars just have the (time honored) “no foreigners” sign out front.

Eh, even some non "seedy" ones have it. It's common enough.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#242

Post by tayo42 » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 5:30 PM UTC

steveBK123 wrote: post #145

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no foreigners It's such a contrast to USA, where I doubt that such a thing would even be legal. And also the bit about no tattoos. That's lawsuit city.

Indeed, and as I frequently say.. those who thinks US is the most racist country in the world should visit 5-10 other countries and report back.

The US is building modern day concentration camps for immigrants. Maybe the country isnt actively killing the out groups right now like a handful of other countries but I'd say the racism is extreme and up there.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#243

Post by scoofy » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 5:31 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #57

paulgerhardt wrote: post #14

Missed opportunity to talk about the locals creative responses to this. One cafe in Tokyo is asking customers to leave negative reviews on Google and Trip Advisor to prevent over exposure (it mostly works but made me curious enough to visit). Another specific $10 Michelin guide ramen restaurant only lets you order from a vending machine outside using a payment method you can’t access as a foreigner (one needs a physi…

I don't know about the Ramen place (I can't believe that they wouldn't take cash?), but I agree with you that more places are doing this kind of "two markets" stuff -- it's even becoming official, in that now there's officially sanctioned "foreigner pricing" for certain temples, shrines, and parks. There's also Google Maps and Yelp vs. Japan's local version (pretty much any review on the former two are useless, and h…

I remember when Four Barrel Coffee had blown up in SF. I lived in the neighborhood, and learned, there was just an entrance in the ally behind the building for locals. No sign, just a way to skip the line.

I have no idea if it’s still there, but I thought it was a super clever way of doing things.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#244

Post by quibono » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 5:35 PM UTC

tourismscourge1 wrote: post #206

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #81

This argument seems to be heavily tinged with xenophobia. Local customers good, foreign ones bad? I can understand if it was specifically about the volume…

[flagged]

Reading this thread and some of the replies reminds of the whole “world vs Japan” memes.

Wanting to preserve the local culture is racist and disgusting UNLESS it’s Japan doing it. I wonder why Japan’s so special

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#245

Post by gtowey » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 5:37 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #57

paulgerhardt wrote: post #14

Missed opportunity to talk about the locals creative responses to this. One cafe in Tokyo is asking customers to leave negative reviews on Google and Trip Advisor to prevent over exposure (it mostly works but made me curious enough to visit). Another specific $10 Michelin guide ramen restaurant only lets you order from a vending machine outside using a payment method you can’t access as a foreigner (one needs a physi…

I don't know about the Ramen place (I can't believe that they wouldn't take cash?), but I agree with you that more places are doing this kind of "two markets" stuff -- it's even becoming official, in that now there's officially sanctioned "foreigner pricing" for certain temples, shrines, and parks. There's also Google Maps and Yelp vs. Japan's local version (pretty much any review on the former two are useless, and h…

I think it's worse than that. I'm starting to think that there may not really be an ethical way to be a tourist in a foreign country. Especially coming from a high cost of living area to a lower one.

Just being there puts you in economic competition with the locals. You can spend more on everything than everyone else and that raises their costs too. Especially housing and food. Those fancy resorts take all the prime real estate and Airbnb means locals have to compete with the tourist rental prices.

And there is more and more people traveling all the time so some areas are just overloaded -- as in the article here.

Everyone thinks that they are being more respectful than average as a tourist, but the hard truth is that the best thing you can do for these places is to not be there at all.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#246

Post by valenterry » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 5:40 PM UTC

dudeinjapan wrote: post #120

I'm the CTO & Founder of TableCheck, the booking system used by 10,000+ restaurants in Japan. My two cents: the issue isn't simply "too many tourists" but rather over-concentration at a few hotspots, a domestic-first market, low English proficiency (ranked #87 globally, a notch above Afghanistan), and a culture deeply focused on orderliness and not causing inconvenience for others. That said, nearly all hospitality o…

> critical for a country facing a 30% population decline by 2070

Tourism doesn't help with that. And this decline (if it do happens) will impact the countryside more than the places where most tourists go.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#247

Post by dataviz1000 » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 5:45 PM UTC

[flagged]

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#248

Post by TimorousBestie » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 5:47 PM UTC

deaddodo wrote: post #211

TimorousBestie wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't have to state a reason. The entire foundation of the common law system is to have a court decide intent; not be technically bound by your words. Yes, I agree. It becomes more difficult to infer intent without a stated reason. Practically speaking, I think most civil rights lawsuits that are decided in the plaintiff’s favor are very, very explicit cases of discrimination. Someone was called a slur, someon…

> The ones who are clever about it never get to that stage. They don’t put up a sign saying “no foreigners,” they put up a sign saying “we speak english here,” “proud to be an american,” and etc. Confederate flags, military paraphernalia, the usual soft threats against the other. These are going to be in places that are not heavily touristed even by other Americans. You're talking about places in the deep south; or i…

> These are going to be in places that are not heavily touristed even by other Americans. You're talking about places in the deep south; or in some survivalist community in Wyoming/Montana/etc. Not in Miami, Chicago, Los Angeles, etc.

It is really hard to dispute the myth that “America” only consists of a few large cities, à la Death Stranding. Unfortunately, the whole country is not as enlightened as LA, SF, and NYC.

International tourism is also not limited to these cities. NPS alone attracts millions each year. Although, I understand the fees for foreign visitors is increasing soon.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#249

Post by BobaFloutist » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 5:49 PM UTC

diggan wrote: post #229

BobaFloutist wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but you're a citizen, which is a higher status than a "permanent resident." Actually, you fully can discriminate for or against local or state residency. I think national residence would be harder, though to be fair you're absolutely able to not hire non-residents. Frankly the biggest barrier might be that as actual residents would get mad if you asked for proof, and if you didn't test everyone it would likely be…

> Ok, but you're a citizen, which is a higher status than a "permanent resident." That sounds like a immigration/social hierarchy/importance rather than something that matters in discrimination contexts, what exactly you mean with "higher status"? If a bar bans non-US residents, if a US-citizen+Spanish-residency tries to enter, then it shouldn't matter if they're US citizens or not, because the criteria is residency,…

Now that I think about it a better quibble is that you probably can't get around anti-discrimination laws by posting a sign that says "No Canadians or Americans that have spent too long in Canada."

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#250

Post by Tainnor » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 5:53 PM UTC

impendia wrote: post #200

timr wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I agree that it's a better way to travel if you can do it, but most people can't [1]. That said, even for short-term tourists, Japan used to be kind of a miracle in terms of the quality and service you would get for the money. I know it sounds like hipster whining, but that time is in the past. [1] My snobby hot-take is that if you can't travel this way you shouldn't do recreational international travel at all,…

I used to live in Japan in 1999-2001, and I was just there again for a month this summer. Anyway, I disagree with you: Japan is still a miracle in terms of the quality and service you get for the money. I saw this many times over. Perhaps not in Kyoto, or in the most touristed areas of Tokyo. Or in whatever random place got featured in some anime, or whatnot. The article mentions Yamaguchi, Toyama, Morioka, etc., and…

The time of the year probably matters too. I didn't find Japan to be terribly overcrowded when I went this February. Certain areas (and the minuscule Kyoto buses) were, but that happens in every tourist location.

I also went to places like Beppu or Kagoshima where I barely saw any tourists.