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Why Koreans ask what year you were born

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Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#241

Post by lifthrasiir »

Leftium wrote: post #114

Koreans have some "hacks" to get around this (age-based) social hierarchy: 1. Some workplaces use English names (and even English language) so co-workers can speak/refer to each other without using the social hierarchy constructs built into the Korean language. 2. Social (partnered) dance clubs go by nicknames for the same reason. Even though I dance with them on a regular basis, I don't know most of my dance friends…

> 1. Some workplaces use English names (and even English language) so co-workers can speak/refer to each other without using the social hierarchy constructs built into the Korean language.

This is intended but didn't work as such, because wording only constitutes a small part of the whole social hierarchy.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#242

Post by [deleted] »

encom wrote: post #221
umbra07 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems sort of like calling other people ma'am and sir in America. Everyone knows what those words mean, but younger people will almost never use them (except in specific American subcultures). Some people may be offended if you call them sir/ma'am.

The YouTube algorithm has seen fit to serve me a bunch of American police bodycam videos lately. I find it super bizarre that a policeman will address everyone as sir. Including some deranged crackhead, without pants, charging at him with a sword. Decidedly not a "sir". In Denmark nobody adresses each other formally, unless you're royalty. Parliament also does it during debates, but that's pretty much it. It's weird…

[deleted]

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#243

Post by yongjik »

xenadu02 wrote: post #210

In the USA as a low-level employee address the company CEO as "heya phil, hows it going?". Then address your friend with "Hello Mr. Smith". In most cases you won't get a positive reaction out of either one of those (yes exceptions exist). How about this: address your husband/wife as "Mr/Mrs ", especially after a fight. Similarly when the kids have been doing something or you are frustrated with your partner say " you…

According to a popular quote, "Languages differ essentially in what they must convey, not in what they may convey."

You can convey relative social position in English, if you want to. You don't have to, if you don't want to.

Korean is different. You have to convey relative social position in basically every sentence because without that you can't finish your main verb.

In English, you can't offend a reasonable person by saying "I heard it's getting hotter today!" or "How big was the pizza?" In Korean, you can. Because there's no socially neutral version of "How big was the pizza" you can use to everyone.

* Well, you may think it's an absurdly cumbersome grammatical system, and in some situations it really is, but generally you get used to, just like English speakers are used to having to know and specify the gender of everyone around them, including cats and dogs, and it generally doesn't cause issues - but then sometimes it does!

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#244

Post by boogieknite »

vel0city wrote: post #129
staticman2 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your example the American CEO said you are family. Do you frequently tell you mom, dad, brothers, children and in laws about your sex life? Of course not. Whatever problem the American in this hypothetical is having, name conventions are not likely to help.

This wasn't just "sex life", it was "sex life problems of your marriage". And yes, there's a good chance I'd go to family and close friends if I was having intimacy problems with my spouse (with the approval of my spouse, of course!), assuming I have a close personal relationship with those people. It's weird to me so many people in America feel they can't talk to anyone but strangers on their internet or paid specia…

is it particularly american to avoid bothering others with my own problems of any kind?

i live in the pnw which is somewhat infamous for its "mind your own business" culture. we have a transplant friend from the midwest who seem less shameful in asking for what amounts to free labor and i wonder if its a regional cultural thing within the US.

if forced by auditors to bother others with my problems, intimacy issues would be near the end of the list.

if this is american, which cultures encourage bothering others with personal problems?

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#245

Post by unsignedint »

I despise the social construct that ties respect to age. As someone who’s biologically Japanese—and coming from a culture that shares similar values with Korean society in this regard—I often find it frustrating when dealing with other Japanese people.

Some individuals will ask your age just so they can justify talking down to you. I’ve even had cases where someone was polite at first, but the moment they realized they were older, their behavior shifted entirely. That kind of attitude is a major pet peeve of mine—it honestly makes me want to pull my hair out.

While the younger generation tends to care less about age differences among peers (and thankfully avoids this behavior), there are still far too many people who believe age alone gives them the right to act superior or pretend they know better.

I strongly believe respect should be earned based on character, not age. I make a point to be polite to everyone, regardless of how old they are—and that’s why I don’t even bother asking.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#246

Post by stirfish »

encom wrote: post #221
umbra07 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems sort of like calling other people ma'am and sir in America. Everyone knows what those words mean, but younger people will almost never use them (except in specific American subcultures). Some people may be offended if you call them sir/ma'am.

The YouTube algorithm has seen fit to serve me a bunch of American police bodycam videos lately. I find it super bizarre that a policeman will address everyone as sir. Including some deranged crackhead, without pants, charging at him with a sword. Decidedly not a "sir". In Denmark nobody adresses each other formally, unless you're royalty. Parliament also does it during debates, but that's pretty much it. It's weird…

Sounds like a duel with a knight, so "sir" feels appropriate.

More seriously, I think it's possible that "sir" can be used in a way that casts everyone as equals. Like, you can be in a crackhead's den and recognize that he is in important person in that environment.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#247

Post by boogieknite »

tauchunfall wrote: post #56
benediktwerner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, as a German (which also has a similar system), I am the complete opposite, I find it super irritating when people address me by my last name. And the worst part is having to figure out how to address others, especially people you've known for a while but aren't really close to, e.g. say long-time neighbors I rarely meet. Luckily, in the IT industry, it's common to just use first names with everybody.

>I find it super irritating when people address me by my last name. Me too. There are still German companies where coworkers address others with Herr or Frau followed by their last name. I find it also interesting how people that learn German understand the difference between the "you" in formal ("sie") and informal ("du") version, but often don't understand in which context du use them. In most cases you can use the…

ever have people at work addressing people by only their first name initial in email?

someone ive never met in person and uses my first name on work calls referring to me as "b" in email. its like the wears-a-bowtie-to-work guy of email.

come across a few of these people and have never noticed a tell they were that type of person outside the text of their email

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#248

Post by sandworm101 »

I did some work (military) with a couple asian nations during a multinational exercise. It was all done in english. What blew them away was how our honorifics changes not just according to the established hierarchies but according to location, dress and who else was within earshot. I had a junior guy from an asian nation shadowing me. He was shocked when my officer and I addressed each other by first names/callsigns. What stressed my shadow was how twenty minutes later, in a different room with different people, we switched to formal ranks. What further blew his mind was my explanation that breaks from these casual informalities would be a silent message. For instance, if a friend addressed me in private by my formal rank, I would know that I was in trouble ... or that someone was listening. He thought our culture was the more complicated. His culture had rules that everyone knew and followed. Our culture had rules that everyone knew but nobody seemed to follow.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#249

Post by justsomehnguy »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #166
esseph wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This rules and your friend is awesome

It's not unusual for people to use the name they know you by. In high school, there was someone who addressed me as Ix, the name I used in multiplayer Duke Nukem. He didn't know my name. There are several people I know primarily through wechat, where it's almost always unnecessary to address people by name because messages have only one recipient. Sometimes this has led to conversations like this: > What should I cal…

> re was someone who addressed me as Ix, the name I used in multiplayer Duke Nukem

Heh, there are still some people who call me by my nickname back from 2000s. It doesn't help what it means something between "the beast" and "the thing" and I had people of the old clout be quite offended by it. Including my mother.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#250

Post by stavros »

xenadu02 wrote: post #210

In the USA as a low-level employee address the company CEO as "heya phil, hows it going?". Then address your friend with "Hello Mr. Smith". In most cases you won't get a positive reaction out of either one of those (yes exceptions exist). How about this: address your husband/wife as "Mr/Mrs ", especially after a fight. Similarly when the kids have been doing something or you are frustrated with your partner say " you…

Or try calling someone "buddy" with an annoyed tone.
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