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Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

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Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#241

Post by ExoticPearTree »

jeroenhd wrote: post #181
DownrightNifty wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extra context I forgot to provide: > RCS may require access to certain SIM card information, which only pre-installed apps can do > because they don't want to implement RCS themselves. Sounds like they can't implement RCS themselves even if they wanted to, not simply that Google doesn't provide an open source implementation? (Referring to app developers here, not custom ROM devs.)

They can't implement RCS for every carrier, but they can implement it for some. Others require nothing more than a network call to a predefined HTTP address over a data connection. Although Google may dislike it, I don't believe Google's RCS implementation (the one most of the world uses) requires elevated permissions. Their activation sequence is proprietary and closed source, though so I'm not 100% sure. Just havin…

I am not familiar with RCS, but considering the plethora of messaging apps available that just work, why did they choose the most complicated way for users to use it? And what do you mean it is not available on every carrier and needs SIM access?

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#242

Post by hocuspocus »

stephenr wrote: post #25
oneplane wrote: post #5

So essentially, it's not really an Apple thing, it's more that the universal RCS profile just didn't have encryption, and Google RCS was a non-standard extension that nobody else was allowed to use. The real news is the update to GSMA RCS, because without that, none of this matters. What I'm missing in the article is who's going to own the keys and why this is probably going to default to the telcos as if it's MMS. A…

I understand your point that the "news" part is that RCS standard now includes E2EE, rather than about Apple's support for said standard. But I don't think it's fair to suggest or imply that this development is unrelated to Apple either. RCS has been a thing for nearly a decade, and Google 's RCS backend has been doing non-standard E2EE for half that time. Within 8 months of Apple publicly announcing they would adopt…

Google has been working on replacing the ad-hoc Signal protocol with MLS since before Apple announced they'd support RCS, it would have happened anyway.

It's more likely Apple was made aware of the spec/Jibe/Messages roadmap when they finally got on board, decided not to target the latest UP version for some reason, and realized implementing the current E2EE scheme would be wasted effort given it would need to be revamped within a year. The iOS RCS client is still pretty far from being provisioned worldwide.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#243

Post by MBCook »

permo-w wrote: post #238
MBCook wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. They’re never going away. Blue = iMessage Green = Other It doesn’t matter if both support 100% identical feature sets, it’s gonna stay like that.

do you have evidence for this?

It’s the way Apple works, and their behavior so far has been consistent.

Blue bubbles are a branding thing, they wouldn’t share them with others. Then what’s the point of having the branding?

They do actually indicate a difference of functionality. RCS doesn’t support iMessage apps for example, not that those get much use.

But like I said, even at parity I think they’d keep the branding.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#244

Post by MBCook »

h0l0cube wrote: post #139
MBCook wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What false pretense? They dictate two different ways of sending messages with different capabilities.

If they were functionally equivalent, why signal a difference? What's the benefit, you think? I'm not saying that they definitely would signal a difference, but in this hypothetical, if the color difference remained, it would be obvious why.

Branding. It’s that simple.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#245

Post by cubefox »

klabb3 wrote: post #178
cubefox wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's false. The color green is irrelevant. If the Apple bubbles had been green, and the Android bubbles had been blue, still the Android bubbles would have been shamed. It was never about the color. It was because of the SMS/iMessage feature incompatibilities.

Let me spell it out: the arbitrary color lets you identify the ones who use Android. Some people think the reason for using Android is being poor. Others don’t want to be seen as poor, because social posturing is important to them.

I don't think it has to do with poverty. There are Android phones that are as expensive as iPhones. It was just because of incompatibility.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#246

Post by madeofpalk »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #220
madeofpalk wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe this FUD. I think overal the market has moved from from charging for messages. I fully believe carriers would love to rip off everyone as much as they can, but I think carriers know customers would just use facebook messenger if they tried charging per-message.

Carriers charging too much is exactly why WhatsApp became so popular in so many countries. It was optimised for very little data usage, so was dramatically cheaper than SMS.

Exactly. That happened like 10-15 years ago. I think the market has evolved and consumers now would not accept this from carriers now.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#247

Post by acdha »

lxgr wrote: post #235
acdha wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it seems unlikely that they wouldn’t reuse as much of that infrastructure as possible to perform the same function for the same users.

Their infrastructure is iMessage protocol specific, though, and that's incompatible with whatever Google does for RCS. So either somebody has to build some new service bridging the gap, or RCS encryption is "serverless" in the way that e.g. OTR was, but unlike Signal (which needs explicit server support for managing pre-keys to bootstrap new connections while the recipient is offline, for example).

Some of their infrastructure is iMessage specific but things like account management, abuse mitigation, and device verification should have plenty of opportunities for reuse.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#248

Post by paulryanrogers »

oblio wrote: post #187
paulryanrogers wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that Signal cannot be the SMS / RCS app, yes that's too much hassle. Network effects are too powerful.

Oh, what's up with Signal?

They used to be SMS compatible. But now are just a solo like most other chat app.

https://signal.org/blog/sms-removal-android/

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#249

Post by _bin_ »

ggm wrote: post #134
_bin_ wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is the world's biggest market and most hackernews live here. So it's pretty relevant here.

China has 1b consumers. Just saying. India too.

together, india and china's consumer spending is about 42% of just America's. number of consumers isn't worth squat; dollars spent is.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#250

Post by madeofpalk »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #233
madeofpalk wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it show that? Blue bubbles don't mean privacy, and green bubbles don't mean insecure. I would presume encrypted RCS would satisfy privacy, and would remain green to indicate it doesn't support iMessage-specific features.

iMessage is encrypted. Blue means the “SMS” was sent over iMessage and it is secure. Green means it was sent as a normal SMS. This is super helpful for non-technical people that want privacy.

> Green means it was sent as a normal SMS

No it doesn't, and it would mean that even less when green messages start meaning end-to-end encrypted RCS.

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