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What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

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Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#241

Post by stainablesteel »

amluto wrote: post #221
bad_haircut72 wrote: post #161

I support scientific research of course but to play devils advocate, how can the USA afford this? They run a deficit and have an enormous debt. I dont understand how this can continously be ignored. Of course nobody wants cuts but how can it go on? Same with the foreign aid, isnt that something a country running a surplus should be worried about?

Go read the article. All of this is a few drops in the bucket. There are some absolutely enormous line items that, by themselves, put us well into deficit territory. On top of that, these things make the US money . We have, by far, the strongest pharmaceutical and medical technology industry anywhere. Those companies pay taxes. (Those companies also screw us and the government over in myriad ways, and that should be…

the "drops in the bucket" mindset is the problem, the federal government absurdly overspends and we've not had any serious politicians to address the issue. the interest on our debt is going to bankrupt us and there will be nothing left afterwards if these things aren't reeled in and examined.

political opponents of the newly elected administration are obviously going to go fully hysterical over any change, they already did last time. the science industries in the US aren't going anywhere, neither is research at the universities.

the ideological discrimination and money laundering coming out of these departments are going to end. and did we all forget about COVID? The fact that the NIH funded the research that happened in china ILLEGALLY, because this was a really stupid idea and we found that out the hard way, and it was covered up, and we were lied to, it killed millions, destroyed economies on a global scale.... do we really not want to see this agency dissected under a microscope? They need to be investigated.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#242

Post by lanstin »

joe_the_user wrote: post #54
dan_can_code wrote: post #3

The cynic in me thinks that the US is going to roll over and take this fascist shake down. The optimist in me thinks that the people will rise up with a resounding NO and do something about it. Right now I'm not sure which I believe.

The thing I find strange is that the other wealthy and powerful stand for the destruction of things that gave the US a huge competitive advantage. The average person isn't hit immediately by the destruction of science. But a far-sighted person with some power should by self-interest not want this. And this, I think, points to the corruption of the entire political class in America with just being upshot.

You can see it just here - Paul Graham made money making a web store in the 1990s (which I can tell you wasn't that hard), then investing his money in a bunch of internet startup (a bit rarer, but I feel like a large percentage of the people that wanted to be rich and had 1 start-up success in the 1990s succeeded); he regards this as equivalent to inventing the standard model of particle physics or inventing the mRNA vaccines, rather than a reasonable capable person at a very lucky time to be good at programming.

Andreesson has the same blindness - he wrote the first web browsers (having not invented HTTP or the web or browsers) and parleyed that into a fortune by investing. I guess he's a skilled investor, a smart financial person, but there is no evidence that he has some special science expertise or extraordinary intelligence. From my observations, one can understand nothing about science or the physical world and do well with software and investing.

As far as "far-sighted," the history from 1980 onwards is the destruction of many things in society devoted to the long view in favor of short-term financialization.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#243

Post by jaredklewis »

drivebyhooting wrote: post #236
softwaredoug wrote: post #206

The big thing is this isn't really about any real monetary savings. What we get out of these budgets is a bargain: > The biggest single share of the NIH budget goes to the NCI ($7.8 billion in 2024), and the second-most to the NIAID ($6.5 billion) with the National Institute of Aging coming in third at $4.4 billion. (See the tables on numbered pages 11 and 46 of that link at the beginning of the paragraph for the det…

Social security and Medicare are inexpugnable liabilities.

Social security yes, but it seems to me that reducing the cost of Medicare and Medicaid should be very much possible. We need to provide healthcare but it should be possible to make that less expensive

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#244

Post by scarab92 »

caycep wrote: post #96
hinkley wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The World Wide Web essentially exits due to grants from the NSF and alumni from those grants starting Netscape.

the irony of Andreesen now being one of those now gloating over its destruction

I don’t think that is a fair characterisation of Andreessen.

He’s always been a Democrat, including supporting Obama and Clinton.

His recent support of Trump appears to be a tactical reaction to some of the misbehaviour during the Biden administration such as debanking political rivals and encouraging race-based hiring.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#245

Post by fnordpiglet »

drivebyhooting wrote: post #236
softwaredoug wrote: post #206

The big thing is this isn't really about any real monetary savings. What we get out of these budgets is a bargain: > The biggest single share of the NIH budget goes to the NCI ($7.8 billion in 2024), and the second-most to the NIAID ($6.5 billion) with the National Institute of Aging coming in third at $4.4 billion. (See the tables on numbered pages 11 and 46 of that link at the beginning of the paragraph for the det…

Social security and Medicare are inexpugnable liabilities.

And it comes to about $120 per tax payer in total. I’ve had dinners that cost more. Give me my science and medicine please.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#246

Post by arrosenberg »

drivebyhooting wrote: post #236
softwaredoug wrote: post #206

The big thing is this isn't really about any real monetary savings. What we get out of these budgets is a bargain: > The biggest single share of the NIH budget goes to the NCI ($7.8 billion in 2024), and the second-most to the NIAID ($6.5 billion) with the National Institute of Aging coming in third at $4.4 billion. (See the tables on numbered pages 11 and 46 of that link at the beginning of the paragraph for the det…

Social security and Medicare are inexpugnable liabilities.

What needs to be overcome? They're directly paid for through payroll taxes.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#247

Post by KennyBlanken »

Dalewyn wrote: post #136
lanstin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weird spanner in the works is that while people may be unhappy, they are unhappy because of things they believe that aren't true. Covid response in the US wasn't that bad; global warming really is causing the floods and fires and hurricanes and the EVs really are helping, as would methane emissions rules and so on; if people think the bi-coastal elites are looking down on them (and they are), like so what; that's…

[flagged]

> Lockdowns were in violation of the right to free assembly,

No right in the constitution has ever been, and never will be, absolute - including the right to life. For example, your right to life ends the split second after you are a credible threat to someone else's right to life - which is why cops will shoot you if you point a gun at someone - or them.

Your right to leave your house ends when doing so means you could make other people seriously or life-threateningly sick. Hence why health departments have had the legal authority to order people confined for two centuries.

You want to participate in society? There are requirements. If you don't like them, go live in a country that doesn't have those laws - there a plenty of countries with little functioning government where you can live out your libertarian wet dreams.

> The wealthy pay more taxes, anyone who understands how tax brackets are structured should know this.

In 1960, billionaires paid a 56% tax. Today they pay a 23% tax: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/03/opinion/globa...

In 2018 billionaires paid less tax than the poorest half of the population:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/08/first-tim...

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/06/opinion/incom...

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#248

Post by ikiris »

drivebyhooting wrote: post #236
softwaredoug wrote: post #206

The big thing is this isn't really about any real monetary savings. What we get out of these budgets is a bargain: > The biggest single share of the NIH budget goes to the NCI ($7.8 billion in 2024), and the second-most to the NIAID ($6.5 billion) with the National Institute of Aging coming in third at $4.4 billion. (See the tables on numbered pages 11 and 46 of that link at the beginning of the paragraph for the det…

Social security and Medicare are inexpugnable liabilities.

Everything is expungable if no one says no.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#249

Post by dnissley »

tomlockwood wrote: post #145
Gabriel54 wrote: post #141

Despite all the hyperbole in this thread I will try to speak plainly. It has become tiring to see how DEI has affected all aspects of academia. Hiring people based on race, awarding grants to work exclusively with members of a particular set of minorities, etc. I'm sure most people choose to close their eyes to such things and move on and focus on the actual important work but there must be unimaginable waste going o…

Do you have any verifiable numbers to back up the impact?

"A 2021 American Enterprise Institute survey of academic job postings found that 19% required DEI statements, and elite institutions were more likely to require them."

https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/fire-statement-use-di...

"Speech First, a group advocating for First Amendment rights on US campuses, released an investigation on Thursday that found 165 of 248 selected institutions — from American University to Williams College — mandate DEI-related classes to meet general education requirements."

https://nypost.com/2024/04/11/us-news/two-thirds-of-us-colle...

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#250

Post by arrosenberg »

jaredklewis wrote: post #243
drivebyhooting wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social security and Medicare are inexpugnable liabilities.

Social security yes, but it seems to me that reducing the cost of Medicare and Medicaid should be very much possible. We need to provide healthcare but it should be possible to make that less expensive

Medicare would become cheaper tomorrow if the government would negotiate drug prices down. Trump isn't going to do that.
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