Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

science.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 1001 posts

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#221

Post by amluto »

bad_haircut72 wrote: post #161

I support scientific research of course but to play devils advocate, how can the USA afford this? They run a deficit and have an enormous debt. I dont understand how this can continously be ignored. Of course nobody wants cuts but how can it go on? Same with the foreign aid, isnt that something a country running a surplus should be worried about?

Go read the article. All of this is a few drops in the bucket. There are some absolutely enormous line items that, by themselves, put us well into deficit territory.

On top of that, these things make the US money. We have, by far, the strongest pharmaceutical and medical technology industry anywhere. Those companies pay taxes.

(Those companies also screw us and the government over in myriad ways, and that should be addressed, but cutting off the research system that supports the entire industry in like throwing out the baby without even draining the bathwater.)

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#222

Post by mastersummoner »

Dalewyn wrote: post #47
unsnap_biceps wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the former is most likely. The people are largely unhappy with how things have been and it's unlikely to get materially worse for the majority of people in the near term, so I don't think there will be a fire lit under enough of the population to rise up. If it gets bad enough that most people are starving, rather then just struggling, we'll see action, but I doubt it'll get there anytime soon.

>The people are largely unhappy with how things have been This is an understatement to say the least, and the fact it's been denied and even refused by the powers that be until today is why the pendulum has swung as hard as it has. Americans wanted change, and they finally got it with ferocious retribution because it's been held back for so long.

I'm confused. Are you saying specifically that you think the experiences described in this article are for the good of the country? Or do you think they're an exaggeration/lie.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#223

Post by stainablesteel »

What i've learned in the last week is that if an unelected bureaucrat thinks it will hurt the Trump administration to follow their order through a manner of malicious compliance, then they will. But if they don't, then they'll ignore the order and pretend they're defending the constitution.

a serious audit of the endless money printing of the federal government is well overdue

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#224

Post by KennyBlanken »

lanstin wrote: post #97
unsnap_biceps wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the former is most likely. The people are largely unhappy with how things have been and it's unlikely to get materially worse for the majority of people in the near term, so I don't think there will be a fire lit under enough of the population to rise up. If it gets bad enough that most people are starving, rather then just struggling, we'll see action, but I doubt it'll get there anytime soon.

The weird spanner in the works is that while people may be unhappy, they are unhappy because of things they believe that aren't true. Covid response in the US wasn't that bad; global warming really is causing the floods and fires and hurricanes and the EVs really are helping, as would methane emissions rules and so on; if people think the bi-coastal elites are looking down on them (and they are), like so what; that's…

> Covid response in the US wasn't that bad

...what?

Trump's son-in-law was put in charge of supply distribution, refused to invoke the defense production act, and when they finally did, Trump took ages to actually "order" ventilators. They refused to implement testing because they knew that tests would show how bad things were and justify measures that would hurt the stock market.

Trump largely didn't do anything at first because COVID-19 was most severely impacting the coastal blue states because of higher population densities.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/did-trump-kushner-igno...

and https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/09/jared-kushner-let-th...

They routed supplies away from blue states to red states. He sent ventilators to Russia, FFS:

https://ru.usembassy.gov/delivery-of-u-s-ventilators-to-russ...

Trump told states to get their own PPE (because blue states needed them more badly than red states, and he didn't want red states to have to pay for it), then the feds outbid state agencies for PPE. And when that didn't work, just outright had customs steal them:

https://www.warren.senate.gov/oversight/letters/warren-deman...

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/how-the-federal-gove...

Our state's orders for PPE was impounded at the port by the feds, who them claimed they had no idea what anyone was talking about. Our state got a bunch of PPE because the NFL football team owner sent his team's 737 to China to pick up masks and gowns (which turned out to have all sorts of problems, like being sized for children.)

Our governor stopped just shy of saying "yes" when asked if he'd sent state troopers into NYC to meet the plane and escort the truck.

https://www.wbur.org/news/2020/04/14/baker-mum-on-whether-st...

> If the wealthy don't pay enough taxes, the middle class will be harmed.

"Will be"? It's been going on for decades. Bush and Trump tax cuts made it even worse and skyrocketed the deficit to boot.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#225

Post by stainablesteel »

cbare wrote: post #133

The US has the strongest university and research system in the world. Wrecking that will be one of the worst acts of self-harm ever.

It's also highly discriminatory and ideological. Decades of discrimination will lead people to want to come back and tear it down, you reap what you sow.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#226

Post by llamaimperative »

anonylizard wrote: post #176
qwe----3 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck getting 500k+ grants in other countries. If you leave there won't be a shortage of postdocs looking for a new tenure track position.

This, the US is the country most willing to make daring bets on innovation. Europe will not spend even 0.1% of its pension/welfare fund on big research bets. The private investors their will only want real estate investments, not fancy wancy "VC". Young talent will flow one way from other countries to the US, because they've already seen what the grass is like on their side.

> the US is the country most willing to make daring bets on innovation.

… a critical tool of which we’re currently dismantling…

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#227

Post by bad_haircut72 »

natnat wrote: post #180
bad_haircut72 wrote: post #161

I support scientific research of course but to play devils advocate, how can the USA afford this? They run a deficit and have an enormous debt. I dont understand how this can continously be ignored. Of course nobody wants cuts but how can it go on? Same with the foreign aid, isnt that something a country running a surplus should be worried about?

Approximately what proportion of the US federal budget is spent on scientific research? What proportion is spent on foreign aid? Looking up these values is a useful exercise.

A billion here, a billion there, before you know it you're talking about some real money.

If I were president I would probably cut from military spending - but at some point that becomes painful to cut aswell.

A lot of people have misunderstood me in this thread, at no point do I want to see public research cut. Its just that the same people who are worried about what climate change will bring over next 50 years (and I am too!) dont seen to feel any sense of alarm at the federal government living outside its means for the next 50 years, and I can not understand why

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#228

Post by scarab92 »

lumost wrote: post #210
scarab92 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s not that many jobs going in academia in other countries, and you’ll be looking at a significant pay cut due to the strong US dollar. Most likely, people who leave academia will be leaving for industry instead. I do feel for those in the hard sciences, they have become collateral damage in what is mostly a battle between politicians and humanities departments.

I've been suspicious that the quality of life cut is distinct from the pay cut. Living in a dense European city, you do not need a car, healthcare is free, and you are generally afforded more time off and a stricter wlb compromise compared to the US. One doesn't need to eat takeout as often if there is time to cook. Depending on the country, rent/housing costs are more or less under control. On the other hand swiss/N…

To be competitive in academia in Europe, you’re not going to have as much free time as you expect.

You’re unlikely to be able to afford to live in the center of a dense Western European city on researcher wages, and most of the jobs aren’t in the city center either, so you’ll probably still need a car.

I think in the US people romanticise living and working in Europe to an unrealistic degree. There are good reasons why the net migration of skilled workers is towards the US rather than away from it.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#229

Post by softwaredoug »

stainablesteel wrote: post #223

What i've learned in the last week is that if an unelected bureaucrat thinks it will hurt the Trump administration to follow their order through a manner of malicious compliance, then they will. But if they don't, then they'll ignore the order and pretend they're defending the constitution. a serious audit of the endless money printing of the federal government is well overdue

You don't need some genius brain auditing to know that 99% of the money goes to social security, defense spending, medicare, medicaid, and interest on debt.

The stuff DOGE is playing with is such a tiny percentage it won't move the needle.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#230

Post by sseagull »

qwe----3 wrote: post #158
sseagull wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a scientist currently on an NSF grant. I am certainly poking around other countries to see what’s out there, and I’m not the only one. A lot of scientists (at least in my field, computational chemistry) have decent skills that are transferrable to other areas. So I expect quite a few to move on.

Good luck getting 500k+ grants in other countries. If you leave there won't be a shortage of postdocs looking for a new tenure track position.

Depends on the kinds of positions. There's more to academia than tenure-track faculty (which isn't in my future at all anyway).

People around me tend to be in the RSE (Research Software Engineer) scene, which is growing in Europe. I, and many of my cohort, could fit in as research staff or faculty in many different disciplines.

Wouldn't get rich or famous, but certainly have a comfortable living working on interesting problems.

Post reply on HN