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The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

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Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#241

Post by sweezyjeezy »

interludead wrote: post #237
ternnoburn wrote: post #194

This author is deeply deeply misunderstanding other humans. They are applying a "it worked for me, therefore it works for all" mentality. And worse yet, coming to the wrong conclusions. You do not need to be an extrovert at work to get ahead. Full stop. Does it help in some ways? Sure, but you can be equally successful as an introvert as long as you are able to communicate clearly when needs demand it. Plenty of exce…

Success is about the skills, contributions and value you bring to the table, not about how much you talk

This sounds naive. Most companies have some degree of 'politics' which is essentially people working in their own interests over the company's. This is somewhat unrelated to skills and value.

Also particularly in large organisations, work is not a perfect information game - there is no easy way to assign a fair / public a "value" to people to let you compare two employees. Most people will need to sell themselves or have other people sell them to get noticed, and some degree of social bonding can go a long way with this.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#242

Post by sweezyjeezy »

ternnoburn wrote: post #194

This author is deeply deeply misunderstanding other humans. They are applying a "it worked for me, therefore it works for all" mentality. And worse yet, coming to the wrong conclusions. You do not need to be an extrovert at work to get ahead. Full stop. Does it help in some ways? Sure, but you can be equally successful as an introvert as long as you are able to communicate clearly when needs demand it. Plenty of exce…

Are you not generalising in the same way? Because you are introverted and successful, does that mean extroversion is bad advice for all?

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#243

Post by Izkata »

I'm seeing a fundamental misunderstanding in both the article and a lot of the comments here, that to me seems closely related to the "some people have no inner voice" / "some people can't visualize things" findings: People making the assumption that how you act defines whether you're an introvert or an extrovert because only the external expression exists, not the internal state. And so all their examples reveal they think introvert/extrovert refer to how social a person is in the moment, instead of what it actually is - a measure of how draining (or not) social interactions are.

You really can't tell if someone is an introvert or extrovert in one instance in a setting, only in what happens later - it's totally possible to be a social introvert, for example, it just means you need alone time later to recharge before you can go again. When not given a chance to recharge it can come off in various ways depending on the person - often people describe it as getting tired, I've also seen snippiness, and I tend to get a headache.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#244

Post by entropyneur »

I'm not convinced introverts and extroverts even exist. All people have a need for company and a need for solitude. Depending on how well each of these needs is satisfied you may feel one or the other way. Most of the time I see people describe themselves as introverts they are describing shyness or social anxiety.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#245

Post by Izkata »

bawolff wrote: post #211
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike being fit, being social doesn't have any inherent benefit in terms of health. It's merely a preference.

That's probably not true. Lonliness is linked to both physical and mental health issues. However being social and not being lonely is not the same thing.

Loneliness and being alone aren't the same thing either.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#246

Post by molochai »

azan_ wrote: post #236
sega_sai wrote: post #146

I don't find this convincing as an introvert. Dealing with shyness or being an introvert required me reading a few books and techniques how to deal with it. In the end that helped, but it was not as easy as just 'try harder' and took a few years. I also wish I realised earlier that it was an issue that needed addressing, but no one told me that. Overall the article seems to trivialize the issue in my opinion.

Can you recommend some books you’ve read? Struggling with the same thing

Not who you asked but:

- Quiet - Susan Cain (introversion in general)

- Cues and Captivate - Vanessa Van Edwards (business-focused social skills)

- The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense at Work - Suzette Haden Elgin (I actually didn't enjoy this one too much, didn't finish it, but I think that was a personal mismatch)

- How to Win Friends and Influence People - Dave Carnegie (a lot of the techniques are very, very dated and transparent when used today... but it's pretty foundational and worth a glance anyway)

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#247

Post by Izkata »

knorker wrote: post #26
erinaceousjones wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have good points in your middle paragraph, but I disagree with your first sentence. I can see a growing trend of dismissive "this reads like it's AI-generated" when I frankly think it has been written like that. Author has a similar tone to me. That's my writing style. > Not everyone can achieve this level of communication in a productive manner. Correct, and it sucks. I feel like it's ableist at times to…

I held back a similar comment about AI-generated. I think the "AI-generated" accusation is overused. This article was incoherent nonsense, but not all incoherent nonsense hallucinations are AI-generated.

Funnily enough, the part that made me suspicious is it didn't end with the last section titled "In Conclusion" - for a while now human bloggers have gotten so bad/lazy they don't seem to know how to tie together a long-form post at the end, and instead just use that title to repeat a couple of earlier points.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#248

Post by cdrini »

blueflow wrote: post #88
niam wrote: post #46

I mostly don't see the point in these terms anymore. They were presumably created to categorize people but suck at it because nobody agrees where the boundaries of the category are, and the resolution on the term is so low for how many domains of personality it touches.

This is a general problem with language.

Yes, but some terms have more trouble with it than others, and if the term cannot converge on a clear, repeatable definition over time, questioning the utility of the term seems reasonable.

Eg the terms "red" and "green" have largely converged on specific, useful meanings over time. Even more abstract words like "freedom" have mostly clear definitions (although definitely also have variance!). Introvert/extrovert I would argue have a LOT of variance in meaning when people use the words. And if people using the words can't agree on what they're actually communicating about, that might suggest that other or new concepts/words might be more useful.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#249

Post by delusional »

asdf6969 wrote: post #217
thayne wrote: post #178

This feels like the author has made the assumption that since they are an introvert, all introverts are like them. However, I think that introversion, like most things is a continuum, not binary. Take the characterization of introverts in the article: "They would rather sit in front of the computer than go out during the yearly college social fest." For me it isn't just a matter of "I'd rather be in front of a comput…

This is mental illness not introversion. You don’t get anxious about other things you don’t like. You might not enjoy playing board games or Russian literature. Does it stress you out and make you anxious? Probably not. You just don’t care.

Please do not impose the "mental illness" label on people over the internet. One of the foundational requirements for any diagnosis of a mental illness is a negative effect on the person's capacity to function, and you just can't evaluate that over the internet.

Its quite harmful to stigmatize peoples stories. Let people be different.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#250

Post by maksimur »

bruce511 wrote: post #214
magicalhippo wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My SO and me are both introverts, and we've talked a fair bit about it. We both enjoy social events every now and then, but we do need to recharge afterwards. The common theme for us seems to be that we expend a lot of energy when talking with others. We analyze what they say, in order to come up with thought-through responses or follow-up questions. We don't do "chit chat" as such. Before such events I dread them, b…

I think this is a root well worth understanding. Once I grasped the concept I found it much less stressful. I've even got into public speaking, which horrified me as a child. I came to realize that I'm really not that important. People aren't watching me. People aren't evaluating or judging me. They forget me when I move on. I'm not profound etc. They don't hang on my every word. All that are things I put on myself.…

I'm not sure about that. Friends and family members do happen to remember something I or someone else said or did even years ago. People DO watch and pay attention, and often judge.
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