Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing • Hacker News Board

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#241

Post by aodin » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 5:19 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #133

jmyeet wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of Americans believe the Federal government should provide health care [1][2]. The current Democratic Party is essentially "Republican Lite", Republican with a happy face on it. Democrats as a whole are more interested in defeating progressives and leftists than they are in defeating Republicans. [1]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/468401/majority-say-gov-ensure-... [2]: https://thehill.com/policy/healthca…

This is issue polling. There are lots of problems with issue polling, but even when delivered well, the fundamental problem is it's not concrete . Poll people to see if they'd like the option to stop paying for health insurance: you'll get Assad numbers. Now write a ballot initiative for single payer, where customers see the tax price tag, and have to worry about losing their current private health insurance: the num…

I'm a Coloradan who voted for the 2016 universal healthcare (aka ColoradoCare) proposal, but I understand why the majority (79%) voted against it: there was sticker shock at the additional 10% income tax (with caveats, but people saw the 10%) and an inability of proponents to answer basic questions such as "Will I be able to keep my current doctor?", "Will I be able to get an abortion?", and "Will there be additional tax increases?".

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#242

Post by amyames » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 5:20 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #29

It's mostly not rational. For instance, much of the conversation over the last day has been about Anthem pushing back on anesthesiology pay on the East Coast. That's people angry about their insurers working to make surgeries cost less by employing the literal guideline Medicare uses, and yet people online were overtly suggesting Anthem's CEO be murdered over it. Incoherent. This won't win me any points in this parti…

> there's no serious theory of change that begins with murdering health care industry people.

To be fair, we’ve never tried it.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#243

Post by s1artibartfast » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 5:20 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #238

s1artibartfast wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which I think itself is a bit of a red herring. Medicare subsidized residency slots are not the only way training doctors could be funded, and largely an artifact of our billing procedures and criteria. It is just one aspect of how incredibly constrained the supply of healthcare is in the US. Medications that are over the counter in many countries requires someone with 12 years of training.

It's not the only way they could be funded, but it is the only way they are funded.

Sure, and my point is that the entire bottleneck is based on a a completely arbitrary artifact of how we handle billing in the US. It is a policy choice.

Residents provide healthcare to patients with real value. This healthcare either gets attributed to the attending physician or goes unbilled. The market value of care provided exceeds what it actually costs to employ and train a resident.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21217491/

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#244

Post by tptacek » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 5:22 AM UTC

justinclift wrote: post #239

tptacek wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the second time on this thread you've pasted this Newsweek link as a rebuttal. I don't understand why you think it rebuts either argument.

Does this one help illustrate the problem? https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/15/unitedhealthcare_ai_m...

What "problem"? You're not being clear about what you're trying to say. That a particular insurer has done bad things? Nobody was going to take the other side of that argument.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#245

Post by tptacek » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 5:23 AM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #243

tptacek wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the only way they could be funded, but it is the only way they are funded.

Sure, and my point is that the entire bottleneck is based on a a completely arbitrary artifact of how we handle billing in the US. It is a policy choice. Residents provide healthcare to patients with real value. This healthcare either gets attributed to the attending physician or goes unbilled. The market value of care provided exceeds what it actually costs to employ and train a resident. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih…

The "arbitrary artifact" here is literally Medicare!

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#246

Post by rawgabbit » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 5:28 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #232

paulryanrogers wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Romneycare and the ACA were a pretty big step in the single payer direction. Popular enough to overcome vetos and attempts to roll them back.

I like the ACA. I think the Swiss system makes a lot of sense. Community rating, guaranteed issue, mandate, subsidy, then universal single payer at retirement, where costs are concentrated. It's a sane system. The problem isn't the system structure.

What one thing would you change in the American system?

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#247

Post by s1artibartfast » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 5:31 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #245

s1artibartfast wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and my point is that the entire bottleneck is based on a a completely arbitrary artifact of how we handle billing in the US. It is a policy choice. Residents provide healthcare to patients with real value. This healthcare either gets attributed to the attending physician or goes unbilled. The market value of care provided exceeds what it actually costs to employ and train a resident. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih…

The "arbitrary artifact" here is literally Medicare!

Yes, largely the fact that Medicare forbids billing for resident services. Im sure there is also an objection on the insurance reimbursement side as well, but I see no reason why a successful procedure of adequate quality performed by a resident should not be billable at the same rate.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#248

Post by tptacek » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 5:38 AM UTC

rawgabbit wrote: post #246

tptacek wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the ACA. I think the Swiss system makes a lot of sense. Community rating, guaranteed issue, mandate, subsidy, then universal single payer at retirement, where costs are concentrated. It's a sane system. The problem isn't the system structure.

What one thing would you change in the American system?

I would drastically increase the number of residency slots Medicare funds.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#249

Post by s1artibartfast » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 5:42 AM UTC

justinclift wrote: post #235

s1artibartfast wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they arent murdering or killing people to make money. The less they pay out, the less they make. Because there is a clear legal understanding of how much profit is acceptable.

> Because they arent murdering or killing people to make money. Ahhh. I guess you're not aware of stuff like this? https://www.newsweek.com/hospitals-are-reporting-more-insura...

Denied claims mean less profit for the insurer. They only get to keep a percent of what they pay to hospitals. Do you have a response to that?

One of the primary jobs of insurance companies is to vet claims. If we didnt want that, you could just make a shared bank account and let doctors and hospitals bill anything they want to it. You might save 10% on overhead, but it would collapse instantly.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#250

Post by kerkeslager » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 5:51 AM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #66

justinclift wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Murder should not be normalized or endorsed. Sure. That includes the US health care system too. The company that person was the key decision maker for has apparently been murdering people for years legally. So, karma?

No, I disagree. We have a system of laws and courts to decide what is criminal. People should not kill law abiding citizens they disagree with because everyone has a different opinion.

> People should not kill law abiding citizens they disagree with because everyone has a different opinion.

That's not what happened.

Brian Thompson isn't a "law abiding citizen I disagree with" he's a law abiding citizen who killed people. If you or your loved one died because of his actions, would you "have a disagreement with him"? Is that what you'd call that?