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Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

nytimes.com

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Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#241

Post by UncleOxidant »

jp42 wrote: post #168
FredPret wrote: post #123

We're living through the silicon age and Intel has made a total dog's breakfast of it. Stagnant revenues, falling profits. Both should have been growing geometrically. Just compare these companies: https://valustox.com/INTC https://valustox.com/AMD https://valustox.com/AVGO https://valustox.com/AMAT Even Qualcomm has seen good growth: https://valustox.com/QCOM This is how it's done: https://valustox.com/NVDA EDIT the…

Intel can save a lot of money by getting rid of incompetent folks in higher management, closing a lot of projects/teams that do not add value, a lot of middle management, simplifying processes that slow down the teams that are actually doing job, changing culture where working 10hr/wk is not tolerated. They need to do some variation of what Elon did to twitter. I have seen many of these things first hand.

> closing a lot of projects/teams that do not add value

I hear what you're saying, but that's also kind of how they got in trouble isn't it? They had an ARM license and a good implementation (at the time) StrongARM, but they shut that down just before smart phones hit. Intel is notorious for shutting down projects like that just before they could have been profitable so they can "focus on their core competencies".

> They need to do some variation of what Elon did to twitter.

Doing to Intel what Elon did to Twitter sounds like a disaster. Yes, Intel needs a shakeup, but don't completely destroy it. It's the largest chipmaker in the US and has actual fabs. I think Gelsinger is on the right track, but it's going to take time.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#242

Post by BeetleB »

singhrac wrote: post #122

I think actually the problem with this program is not the recipient (I mean, Intel is literally the only American company building fabs in the US) but the structure. The problem with US fans is that the skilled Taiwanese workforce is simply willing to work for less and more flexibly. We could easily solve that problem if we were willing to do what China is doing, which is paying Taiwanese PhDs, engineers, and technic…

> We could easily solve that problem if we were willing to do what China is doing, which is paying Taiwanese PhDs, engineers, and technicians to come to the US. Give them a streamlined visa and green card process, and pay them a cash bonus to emigrate.

Well actually ... TSMC poached a number of Intel employees (who already had green cards and/or naturalized citizens). If Intel could have paid them more to stay, I'm sure they would have.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#243

Post by aylmao »

I'm a foreigner native to one of the many nations where American influence led to the sale of sate enterprises, free trade, market liberalization, and overall loss of local companies to the hands of USA firms

It's wild to see the same thing happen to the USA now, and to see their government be the ones handing out taxpayer money and caring about national sovereignty over liberalization and "market efficiency".

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#244

Post by btbuildem »

lenerdenator wrote: post #154
randerson wrote: post #115

Intel could have funded this themselves many times over if they'd reinvested their profits instead of paying huge buybacks and dividends.

The goal of a corporation is to generate value for shareholders, and we don't give any incentives for them to do otherwise.

I ask again, who are these "shareholders" and why do we continue to play along with this monumental scam?

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#245

Post by cmrdporcupine »

aylmao wrote: post #243

I'm a foreigner native to one of the many nations where American influence led to the sale of sate enterprises, free trade, market liberalization, and overall loss of local companies to the hands of USA firms It's wild to see the same thing happen to the USA now, and to see their government be the ones handing out taxpayer money and caring about national sovereignty over liberalization and "market efficiency".

It's been happening for decades in other industries. Especially automotive. Same (worse) here in Canada.

To me it's a sign of a sector in decline.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#246

Post by dietmtnview »

aylmao wrote: post #243

I'm a foreigner native to one of the many nations where American influence led to the sale of sate enterprises, free trade, market liberalization, and overall loss of local companies to the hands of USA firms It's wild to see the same thing happen to the USA now, and to see their government be the ones handing out taxpayer money and caring about national sovereignty over liberalization and "market efficiency".

As a US citizen, it's pretty wild to live through. Socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the rest of us.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#247

Post by mortify »

lenerdenator wrote: post #151
exabrial wrote: post #139

Oh good, another bunch of board members can now afford their yacht club memberships for 2024. These handouts need to stop.

The alternative is to be dependent on the rest of the world for chips. The market decided that the most efficient transaction is to offshore all of this infrastructure to geopolitically-compromised areas and pray that China never does what every other emerging power in the history of geopolitics has done. The market chose wrong.

The market chose what it could based on the conditions that exist. Make is easier to people to open new businesses and expand existing ones, and people will do so. Creating hostile environments and then choosing who gets free money to overcome those difficulties is not much of a market.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#248

Post by dietmtnview »

FredPret wrote: post #123

We're living through the silicon age and Intel has made a total dog's breakfast of it. Stagnant revenues, falling profits. Both should have been growing geometrically. Just compare these companies: https://valustox.com/INTC https://valustox.com/AMD https://valustox.com/AVGO https://valustox.com/AMAT Even Qualcomm has seen good growth: https://valustox.com/QCOM This is how it's done: https://valustox.com/NVDA EDIT the…

It blows my mind how much these large firms have totally dropped the ball. It's like IBM levels of decline.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#249

Post by mortify »

m3kw9 wrote: post #37
bluSCALE4 wrote: post #28

Glad to see so many people pissed off. Nothing will change but it's good to see so much information and callouts of corporate welfare.

Why pissed off? Intel is the one with experience and the US is desperate de-risking TSMC and control more of the chip as chips is one of the most important resources now and in future. Would they give it to Y-combinator startups? If Yes they would be a fraction of it, Intel earned this by being American and being the cornerstone of American Chip business for past few decades

This isn't a mandate to accomplish anything. It's a pile of cash. Intel will do what it chooses with it and justify it later.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#250

Post by 34679 »

bhhaskin wrote: post #82
34679 wrote: post #68

I feel sorry for any startups looking to innovate in this space. It's hard enough competing against established players without them getting billions in free money. Intel has had the resources to build out fabs in the US for decades. Instead, they've chosen to build elsewhere, and now they're rewarded for it? They recently announced their $20b facility in Ohio is being "put on hold": https://www.tweaktown.com/news/96…

This isn't really a startup kinda business. It costs something like $10b to build a new fab.

That's where the innovation comes in.
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