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It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#241

Post by scarface_74 »

szasamasa wrote: post #191
scarface_74 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone thinks that Apple really cares if you use PWAs? It came out in the Epic trial that 90% of the App Store revenue comes from pay to win games and in app purchases of loot boxes and coins. Those apps aren’t going to be PWAs. If it’s only mean old Apple keeping the great world of cross platform apps using web technologies, why aren’t PWAs more popular on Android?

if apple did not care, they would not have crippled web capabilities in the last 10+ years and they would just let chromium/gecko based browsers make use of web standards web apps are the future that may take as much as 90%+ of the 100B app store revenue web apps will succeed once good programmers and companies make strategic decisions to build good web apps crippling web apps on one important major platform like iOS…

Where are all of the great PWAs for Android and why are the same companies making apps for iOS also making native apps for Android?

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#242

Post by szasamasa »

crazygringo wrote: post #223
szasamasa wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in a hypothetical spy browser maybe :) not in any of the modern browser engines like Gecko/Firefox just be responsible and use Safari if you want the status quo or use a trusted browser engine like from a big company like Firefox/Edge/Chrome do not be fooled, you people use web capabilities including service workers on websites in all OS, you even did it with Safari on iOS if iOS had some vulnerability vs. android, w…

> in a hypothetical spy browser maybe :) not in any of the modern browser engines like Gecko/Firefox But that's the whole point of security -- you're protecting precisely against the disguised malware, not the well-behaved software. To say that this isn't necessary because there exist browsers that are well-behaved misses the point of security entirely. And remember that iOS was built with a new model of security in…

people who are these children you are describing SHOULD all stay by Safari and never download a browser app...

other adults may still want to stay by Safari

some people will just use Gecko or Chromium based browsers, as far as I know Chromium and Brave are totally open source :)

I would not recommend chinese or russian developed browsers but heck is America not a free country?

iSpyBestBrowser shall apple users download, I do not think anybody would blame Apple if their iPhones get compromised

hold back your long protective arms and concentrate on: 1. Safari security, providing a secure Apple-Level security choice 2. You may want to prompt users and tell them who owns the company and who develops the browser they are trying to download and what could happen if...

I mean do you really think somebody has to fear Microsoft Edge or Google Chrome?

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#243

Post by jsnell »

crazygringo wrote: post #223
szasamasa wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in a hypothetical spy browser maybe :) not in any of the modern browser engines like Gecko/Firefox just be responsible and use Safari if you want the status quo or use a trusted browser engine like from a big company like Firefox/Edge/Chrome do not be fooled, you people use web capabilities including service workers on websites in all OS, you even did it with Safari on iOS if iOS had some vulnerability vs. android, w…

> in a hypothetical spy browser maybe :) not in any of the modern browser engines like Gecko/Firefox But that's the whole point of security -- you're protecting precisely against the disguised malware, not the well-behaved software. To say that this isn't necessary because there exist browsers that are well-behaved misses the point of security entirely. And remember that iOS was built with a new model of security in…

That explanation doesn't make sense. Apple is not permitting arbitary browsers on the platform.

> To help keep users safe online, Apple will only authorize developers to implement alternative browser engines after meeting specific criteria and committing to a number of ongoing privacy and security requirements

Given Apple is going to continue gatekeeping browsers, the malware excuse just doesn't work. Malware browsers wouldn't get on the stores in the first place, unless Apple fucks up. And even if that happened, it would be quickly revoked.

This is one of those places where Apple's restrictons conflict with their scaremongering. If they'd only done one or the other, one could buy it. But when the combination of the two is nonsense, it becomes clear that the scaremongering has no basis in reality, and is just a justification made up after the fact and the real motivation is something else.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#244

Post by mmcnl »

scarface_74 wrote: post #240
mmcnl wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90% _today_. Strategic chess moves like this are about the next decade. The web is becoming more and more powerful and who says Fortnite can't run in a browser in 5 years? Especially if EU forces Apple to allow alternative browser engines that Apple can't control. It's an existential threat to the App Store model.

And what is stopping Epic from using a PWA today on Android of its just Apple holding them back?

No idea, but as I said it's about the next decade, not today.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#245

Post by dang »

szasamasa wrote: post #211
neximo64 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use web notifications, and you can compile Objective C to webassembly. You're also able to use apple pay. Everything you've mentioned has a workaround. I'm really getting at how PWAs are basically something most people wouldn't use, not because they're missing APIs but because they're just a terrible experience and difficult to install and use. If its Apple that is holding back PWAs so much, its not that they…

your comment is terrible and a big tell you have no idea of web technology :) there are plenty of web capabilities that have web standards, PWA is not even a thing officially... no such thing as PWA actually, no such thing explicitly as web app, either... "installing" web apps is also non-existent officially, it is a very misleading buzzword if you could call something web app it is a website that was switched to a "…

> your comment is terrible and a big tell you have no idea of web technology

You can't attack another user like that on this site, and we ban accounts that do, so please don't do it again.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#246

Post by szasamasa »

anon373839 wrote: post #55
vinay427 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious: do you have any examples you'd like to share? Not that React Native is the same as a PWA, but even in that space I have yet to find an RN app (at least those I know about from their Showcase page [1]) that rivals a native app on iOS, but perhaps it's wrong to assume a React Native app would be comparable to or strictly better than a PWA. [1] https://reactnative.dev/showcase

I don’t have an example I can show, unfortunately. I am currently building an app for internal use, and because I’m obsessive about presentation, I ironed out every wrinkle in this department. It’s 100% fluid, there are no layout shifts, no surprises anywhere. You would never know it’s not native. But I will admit it took a lot of effort to hunt down all the little idiosyncrasies and fix them. I think a problem with…

me too

it is just totally possible, there are so many web api-s, you just need to be a good programmer and study a lot

you will not really find or use big web apps because

1. most companies have already built their native apps with mobile engineers

2. web "programmers" or rather designers are stuck with old tech

3. web apps will start to become strategic targets(!) by most developers/companies if you are sure they are cross platform (which was crippled by Apple and now they even try to eliminate modern web capabilities on iOS

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#247

Post by dang »

szasamasa wrote: post #145
szasamasa wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

apparently my former title was too much for this site: "iPissed: Apple is after web capabilities to protect close-to-100B App Store Tax" which was relating to the article (and you can read the title of the original article after clicking) but I did not like "kills web apps" because it is not true in my opinion, tries to kill web apps or fights against them or cripples them in the next iOS release... it sounded too et…

I found guidelines not rules: "Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." For me, "kill web apps" is misleading since we have to wait and see how the EU reacts. The original title is more of a clickbait. I am not a power user of hacker news. I found a title to fill in and did my best. Had I seen there a link to the guidelines or a text like: please use original…

(I'm a moderator here.)

The title you submitted ("iPissed: Apple is after web capabilities to protect close to 100B App Store Tax") broke that guideline badly. It's standard moderation practice to revert titles when submitters do this. If you felt the original title was misleading, then it would have been correct to change it, but definitely not by editorializing and making it more baity. On HN, being the submitter of an article doesn't confer any special rights over the title—I know other forums work differently, but this is an important point to understand about this one.

It's also standard moderation practice to downweight follow-up stories when a major ongoing topic has already had significant discussion recently, as this one has. We can argue about whether or not the story should have been formally marked a [dupe], but the basic moderation call to downweight it as a follow-up thread was, again, the standard one. Otherwise HN's front page would routinely be filled with follow-up discussions of the same few topics—whichever ones are most controversial that week—and that is not the site we're trying to have here.

It's not a problem, of course, that you were inexperienced with how HN works and broke the rules by accident. HN can be a cryptic place and it can take a while to get oriented. What's not fine, though, is posting indignant comments complaining about how you've been mistreated by what is in fact ordinary practice. Such meta drama is off-topic in the threads and has a way of taking over discussion if allowed to, so please don't do it again.

Also, while I have you: please don't attack other users as you did here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39410740. That's definitely not allowed, as should be clear from reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, and you can make your substantive points without it.

You're welcome on HN! Just please make sure not to post in the flamewar style to HN threads. Again, I know other forums work differently, but we're trying for thoughtful, curious conversation here, and flamewar destroys that, so that's the most important thing to avoid while commenting.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#248

Post by szasamasa »

troupo wrote: post #222
Turing_Machine wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web apps and Electron apps are two different things. Entirely. > So, let me get it straight. A web app running inside a web browser engine is bloated, slow, and non-performant when it's on desktop. But the moment you put it on mobile it's not? A web app doesn't require that you bundle an entire Chrome runtime with the app. There's a lot of your "bloated" right there. You've been told this several times, so it seems t…

> There's a lot of your "bloated" right there. You've been told this several times, so it seems that you're being deliberately obtuse. I also use "web apps" in the browser. I struggle to find a single one that doesn't fit the description. Well, I know some , but when ask people like you to give examples, there's either silence or some ridiculous thing that only proves my point. > I. Just. Don't. Care. Indeed > I'm ol…

try hover.com

it is a responsive website, they do not have native apps, you can still use it on a phone

I just checked you can use it standalone if you want to, I myself choose to use this website from the browser on linux... but I actually "installed" it on android and if I used my mobile more, I might just want to use this "app" this way

every website is a potential web app if written responding to screen sizes correctly

inherently nothing is bloated...

actually, I do not really understand why you hate web apps that much, just do not use them! use them in your favourite browser or whatever

whether a sotware shit or not, depends on the developer, not whether it is c++, java, swift, android-java or js...

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#249

Post by Sammi »

bambax wrote: post #229
caskstrength wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is the evilest of evils. It must be fought with great determination if we are concerned with freedom. Continuing using Apple products while periodically expressing your frustration on Reddit/HN is not a good way to "fight" Apple. Consider using PC with Linux or something.

Yes, hence "mistake". (Also I only buy products second hand.)

If you want an alternative then you will need to pay for it.

Apple makes money because people pay for their products.

Maybe consider the Framework laptop. I don't have it, but that's what I'd consider if I wanted off Apple's crazy ride.

Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU

#250

Post by wiseowise »

fragmede wrote: post #233
wiseowise wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can code on it In castrated terminal that is walking on the edge of what is "permitted" by overlords. Or are you talking about open thin IDE that connects to a remote machine in a browser?

https://vscode.dev/

So the second one.
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