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Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

foundation.mozilla.org

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Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#241

Post by isaacremuant »

polotics wrote: post #7
antoinebalaine wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the context: the fr gov's been acting against national interest for more than 20 years in a row. The people know it. The gov knows the people know. The gov wants to pretend it's not doing anything wrong. It could keep pretending credibly, if only people would keep their trap shut on the web. So now gov wants to control what people can see and say on the web.

This is extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence! This looks more like a whack-a-mole "for the children" misguided initiative, not a great firewall of China... Do you have more context?

Government power grabs are the norm. You'd need extraordinary evidence to prove otherwise.

Of course, authortiarians will always pretend there's some mistake or some good intention, once they're exposed, and attack people with labels, when criticism is used against their policies.

Comparing stuff to the great firewall of china is ridiculous. It's like saying things are ok with police in the US because they're not north Korea.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#242

Post by stackedinserter »

LocalH wrote: post #165
stackedinserter wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can ban it from appstore/googleplay, with the provision that it should be banned for ALL countries, or else.

Or else what? What ability would any country have to demand that an app be removed from offer outside of their jurisdiction?

- Or else pay fine

- Then pay 10x fine

- Then appstore is banned

- Then 100x fine

- Then your employees in the country are arrested and held as hostages

As someone from a country that turned into totalitarian shithole in mere 10 years, that "pfft I don't care they won't enforce it" attitude looks dangerous and shortsighted.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#243

Post by advisedwang »

stainablesteel wrote: post #173

There's no basis for blocking a web browser that doesn't comply. If Mozilla came out and said "nah", what exactly would the french government do? ban that web browser? demand every website accessed via france check if someone is running a banned web browser? the absurdity would spiral out of control on its own, it seems best to ignore this so that the europeans can take an official L on regulating web content.

I don't know French law, but some options:

* Arrest Mozilla officials if they travel to France

* Seize or prevent donations made in France

* Seize or prevent the Google-search-is-the-default for French portion of queries

* Use international venues like WTO to get a judgment enforceable in the US

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#244

Post by goodbyesf »

eigenket wrote: post #163
goodbyesf wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's an entirely different issue tho, a private company regulating its own product has nothing to do with a gov trying to restrict internet access to its citizens. That's my point. A private company regulating its own product is fine as long as it is private and independent. My point is that all 'private' companies appear to be following the same script which isn't something we'd expect from private independent c…

This comment feels a little conspiracy theory-ish. If a sufficiently big block of customers likes the idea of 'minority, lgbt and women's rights as you put it, they you're gonna see a bunch of companies trying to present themselves in a way that if favorable to that block.

> This comment feels a little conspiracy theory-ish.

Is conspiracy theory-ish code for true or obvious? Strange how 'conspiracy theory' ad hominems became popular recently.

> If a sufficiently big block of customers likes the idea of 'minority, lgbt and women's rights as you put it, they you're gonna see a bunch of companies trying to present themselves in a way that if favorable to that block.

Playing dumb I see. The country is majority christian and white. Using your logic, all commercials should be christian themed and advocate for whites.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#245

Post by Zuiii »

pmontra wrote: post #150
mywittyname wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think simply modifying the hosts file on a machine to "rename" the domain of the site you want to visit would be sufficient to bypass a browser-level block.

The browser must send a request with a Host header with the correct site name or the server will 404 it. What could work is a local proxy server that translates the host name in the request. It must MITM the https requests though.

> The browser must send a request with a Host header with the correct site name or the server will 404 it.

Only if you configured it that way. Most http servers have a "default" website which they will happly serve from if the Host header has no match. I expect these sites will continue to work just fine in firefox using the host file hack or via alternative DNS domains.

Unless they just want a foot-in-the-door law to make certain browsers illegal (to then expand on it later), blocking content at the terminal is not the way to do it. So so many ways to get around it.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#246

Post by Zuiii »

advisedwang wrote: post #243
stainablesteel wrote: post #173

There's no basis for blocking a web browser that doesn't comply. If Mozilla came out and said "nah", what exactly would the french government do? ban that web browser? demand every website accessed via france check if someone is running a banned web browser? the absurdity would spiral out of control on its own, it seems best to ignore this so that the europeans can take an official L on regulating web content.

I don't know French law, but some options: * Arrest Mozilla officials if they travel to France * Seize or prevent donations made in France * Seize or prevent the Google-search-is-the-default for French portion of queries * Use international venues like WTO to get a judgment enforceable in the US

> Use international venues like WTO to get a judgment enforceable in the US

If I was a browser vendor, I'd wait for this. The US will never allow it.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#247

Post by Zuiii »

bachmeier wrote: post #62
bradley13 wrote: post #59

How do they expect to enforce this? Especially against open-source browsers, or companies without a presence in France? One disadvantage of globalization is that you get to see the dumb ideas of all politicians. Somehow, the good ideas don't cumulate the same way...

> How do they expect to enforce this? Especially against open-source browsers, or companies without a presence in France? I don't have an answer to your question, but China seems to be successful with the internet censorship thing.

> China seems to be successful with the internet censorship thing.

Domestically sure but I see stuff about the Tiananmen Square massacre and even whinny the pooh all the time. I don't even go out of my way to look for it.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#248

Post by Zuiii »

popcorncowboy wrote: post #206
taylodl wrote: post #61

Serious question - can governments put mandates on open source software? How would that work? How could it work?

Of course. Legislature can pass any laws it decides to. Open source software doesn't get some free-pass that allows it to dodge laws. Yes of course you can ignore, disagree and break laws. But they can and will come after you.

> But they can and will come after you

No they can't and won't. Though they will grab you if you go to them.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#249

Post by Zuiii »

cobalt60 wrote: post #197
debacle wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and you can get Chromium without Google, easily, because it's open source. https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium

So yeah Google devs pushed WEI into chromium just a month ago

And? GP's point still stands.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#250

Post by Zuiii »

runeks wrote: post #85
indymike wrote: post #74

The best solution would be to simply take Firefox off the market in France should this happen. If France wants browsers to work through the government, they can fund it, build it, and make laws to force people to use it.

Even better: keep allowing the French people to download Firefox while ignoring this law

I'd set up a simple page that blocks downloads while not doing much else to stop use in France. That way, you comply with the law by not offering it to the french while also allowing anyone there to use it if they want.
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