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The Future of the Vim Project

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Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#241

Post by jonhohle »

rokizero wrote: post #137
bombcar wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no worry about the funds being lost. It’s just imagining my heirs having to contact and close fifty+ accounts.

Serious question: How common is having dozens of accounts? I live in NL and have 3 at the same bank. Why would anyone have 50+ accounts?

My wife and I have four kids and for each of them is a personal savings account, a savings account we keep for them to accumulate over time to avoid a taxable lump sump “gift”, and a tax advantaged educational savings account. For ourselves we have brokerage, savings, checking, and each have pretax and post-tax advantaged retirement accounts and health savings accounts. Many tech employees would also have 401k and possibly equity compensation accounts. And then any credit or debt (mortgage) accounts on top of that.

Our family is big, and the number of accounts scales with the number of people, but that’s about 25 without getting into anything moderately interesting.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#242

Post by tambourine_man »

marcthe12 wrote: post #115
revscat wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neovim is a superset of vim, so this argument applies to both.

Neovim remove set compatible (hardcodes set nocompatible). Vim support the POSIX vi via that option.

Not quite. Vim is vi compatible by default. You have to explicitly opt in for the newer behavior.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#243

Post by hnfong »

tuwtuwtuwtuw wrote: post #209
artogahr wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is you don't remember them, they become second nature, intuition, and you just sort of... do it without thinking. Assuming you've given time to learn it, editing with vim takes less mental effort and is faster.

Do you have any source for that claim? I had a coworker who swore that X was the fastest way to do Y. Turned out it wasn't and X just made him very busy hitting keyboard quickly.

You're talking about two totally different things.

GP is saying Vim users generally have muscle memory of their shortcuts (I might add, to the extent that some of them may not even be conscious which keys they are pressing). GP also mentioned that Vim takes less mental effort (due to muscle memory) and is faster.

The faster part is easy to argue even from a theory perspective. Your hands basically never leave the home position. The time saved from physically moving your hands to and from various keyboard/mouse positions are reduced. At least Vim can be faster in that sense.

You're saying you have a personal anecdote about a coworker (who from your description isn't necessarily using Vim). How is that relevant?

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#244

Post by r3trohack3r »

OskarS wrote: post #13

My brother passed away very suddenly a few years ago, and I was put in charge of wrapping up and archiving his "digital" life. We were very lucky that we had access to a recovery email for his main gmail account (as well as a couple of passwords that his partner knew) and was able to access and archive virtually all data we could think of (services like Google Takeout were invaluable). I realized that if this had hap…

I’m sorry to hear about your brother.

> all my passwords and credentials are in my password manager, and the password to that was only in my head.

It’s not just death I worry about. Anything that causes me to lose my memory of the password, from disease to head injury, leaves those trying to help me locked out of everything.

A password manager is an incredibly helpful tool to leave behind, it’s a compiled list of all vendors you have registered an online account with.

But, IIUC, without legal authority to access those accounts on my behalf it might not be sufficient. I’m planning to talk to an attorney that specializes in taking care of the legal side too. IIUC there are accounts you need legal authority to access even if you have the password. For example, if I give my friend the password to my 401k with the purpose of managing my estate, them using that password can put them in a legally gray area.

Also planning to work out a rough order of importance and context for a subset of accounts can help. Like writing down which financial vendor is managing the life insurance policy and whether that’s tied to my employer or not (if I lose my job leading up to my death, I.e. during a long battle with an injury, will I lose my life insurance before it pays out?)

A “red binder” project is on my families short list - the “I’m dead or incapacitated, here’s what you do” playbook. The above is how I’m thinking about things. I would love to hear more thoughts/perspectives

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#245

Post by hnfong »

40four wrote: post #226
yoyohello13 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a vim user, I am 100% convinced that I am not that much faster than my colleagues who use normal key binds. However, I subjectively feel a lot less friction editing with vim keys than I do with the mouse and arrow keys. So Vim makes me happier...

This is the way I look at it. The productivity claims are probably a bit overhyped. For me Vim is just simply fun! It makes me think of the best way to do something, and there is always something new to learn. It makes me happy as well :)

While your perspective is totally valid, I think the idea that you always have to think about and learn how to use your editor seems to confirm the original commenter's point about the whole thing being too complicated.

To which I say, I've been using Vim (and nVim) for more than 20 years now, and the learning part is optional after a year or so of intense use.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#246

Post by wruza »

earth2mars wrote: post #198

Why so many people love vim? I have a genuine question. I was trying to delete contents of a file and paste new content. It was nightmare for me to remember the 3 or 4 finger combination shortcuts with small and cap letters involved during the process. I like if the shortcuts using Ctrl or shift or Alt or Command or Windows buttons over 3 finger with caps changing keys. The cognitive load in remembering shortcuts is…

For me the answer is simple: I think in vim.

It’s unclear how I got there. It was long ago but my guess is two key things: I believed in rumors/stories and I didn’t give up.

Tbh, if vim wasn’t vi-like, I’d still use it for its programmability. I’m certain that everyone has to use what fits their personality.

(Added: not concerned with speed or whatever unless an editor starts choking or popping up interfering crap randomly. I use mouse when it’s convenient and mostly move with arrows except for AIO^$ - I don’t have homerow discipline anyway.)

I know this topic is near and dear to many

Not at all for me. Vim is not everywhere and when I have to take a quick note or copy-paste I often open Notepad2 (because I don’t want to switch between editing models). I just prefer vim model when it comes to long/structured editing sessions.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#247

Post by jonhohle »

macinjosh wrote: post #168
rokizero wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: How common is having dozens of accounts? I live in NL and have 3 at the same bank. Why would anyone have 50+ accounts?

That dude is probably quite wealthy.

It’s not necessarily related to wealth (except that you need some savings), but when ING Direct was a thing my wife and I had an account for every savings goal and used it as our “envelope” system. There was no cost per account and you could open one in seconds, so we had a bunch of low value (dozens of dollars! Dozens!) accounts for saving for our next phone or vacation. That could have been done with a spreadsheet, but it was less work to just make separate accounts.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#248

Post by pr0zac »

atoav wrote: post #202
sshine wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call this a Horcrux. Also, unless your arbitrary number of friends are cryptographers, it's a sure way for them to collectively lose your shit.

I'd say a regular will, sealed at a notary is just okay. If you are really paranoid, why not write a service that works like a dead mans switch and when you don't trigger it for n days it sends all the keys to the kingdom to those who should receive them.

Google actually provides this service: https://myaccount.google.com/inactive?pli=1

At this point I've moved almost everything off Google and basically now only use my Gmail account for logins on websites I don't want to give my real email address to and to keep Inactive Account Manager setup to send the necessary info to get into my 1Password account to my brother if I die.

I have a will setup with all my financial details and have set beneficiaries everywhere but this feels like a good backup in case I forget to update it with something or my family has trouble gaining access using other means.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#249

Post by shever73 »

cdelsolar wrote: post #119
ThrowAway1922A wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While there probably isn't anything on them, it's always been a pain to not know. I know I wouldn't care because I'd be dead, but I really do not want my family getting on to my personal devices after I'm dead. Those are things that I will never give them the passwords for, not everything is their business.

yeah same here. Do I have to give out my passwords, or can I just make a doc with important things?

I have a doc, which is password-protected and shared with my wife. It contains details of bank accounts, how to access shares, who we're insured with and passwords / passcodes for things she might need access to.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#250

Post by nequo »

arp242 wrote: post #138
fortunateregard wrote: post #17

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

- It's not backwards compatible. - Features I find useful have been removed. - I dislike Lua, and significantly prefer Vim9Script. - Gvim is useful at times.

Out of curiosity to better understand the ways in which Vim can be used:

> Features I find useful have been removed.

Which ones specifically?

> significantly other Vim9Script

What do you like more in Vim9Script?

> Gvim is useful at times.

What are your use cases for the GUI?

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