Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers • Hacker News Board

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#241

Post by peteradio » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 1:48 PM UTC

WithinReason wrote: post #189

DangerousPie wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have access to the paper, but just reading the abstract it gives these numbers: > Exposure modeling results suggested that the highest estimated daily intake was 20.3 ng/kg·day for infants drinking microwaved water and 22.1 ng/kg·day for toddlers consuming microwaved dairy products from polypropylene containers. > Furthermore, an in vitro study conducted to assess the cell viability showed that the extracted…

So it seems that a concentration of microplastics that's 50 million times higher than a toddler would get still leaves 20% of cells alive? To me this implies that normal exposure levels to microplastics are likely completely harmless.

Sleeping next to abandoned nuclear batteries will give you radiation burns and kill you in a few weeks to months, exposure to high radon will give you cancer in decades. Unrealistically high dosages can hint at problems that might occur at low levels.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#242

Post by goodpoint » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 1:48 PM UTC

defatigable wrote: post #21

dataflow wrote: post #14

As someone who avoids cooking with plastic, I've always wondered... what makes people think it's safe? Does it not occur to most people that plastics can break down through the heat they're subjected to, or do they assume the plastics in question have been specifically designed to adequately withstand that?

My basic mental model is that my body is constantly consuming chemicals that it doesn't use, be it particulates in the air or substances in the foods I eat or drink. My body is very good at incorporating the substances that it finds useful and ignoring (or killing) the ones that it doesn't, so I don't find myself worrying too much about any particular substance it might take up. To your point, I don't have any partic…

Your mental model is plain wrong. Humans are not "very good" at ignoring lead, asbestos, particulate, radiations, nox...

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#243

Post by goodpoint » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 1:49 PM UTC

rcme wrote: post #15

dataflow wrote: post #14

As someone who avoids cooking with plastic, I've always wondered... what makes people think it's safe? Does it not occur to most people that plastics can break down through the heat they're subjected to, or do they assume the plastics in question have been specifically designed to adequately withstand that?

I don't think plastic is safe and avoid it whenever possible, but an argument for its safety is that it has been widely used for a hundred years and we still don't have many direct causal links between plastic and health problems.

> we still don't have many direct causal links between plastic and health problems.

On the contrary.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#244

Post by Jur » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 1:52 PM UTC

cj wrote: post #195

aziaziazi wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a parent, but curious: can’t you microwave glass booties ? I do microwave water in glass and don’t see problems. Is it the fragility of the glass ? In that case I guess any fabric protection can solve it ?

Not a parent, but guessing glass is bad because kids tend to throw things and glass is breakable.

I'm a parent and we are feeding our second child from glass bottles because of microwave+micro-plastic concerns. So far no bottle throwing, so we'll just see how far we get with these until the throwing starts. We'll probably also switch to glass food-containers for daycare once he starts going there.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#245

Post by goodpoint » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 1:59 PM UTC

staunton wrote: post #87

andersrs wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Every few years we find a new chemical like BPA is bad for us. The companies just made a meme called 'BPA free' and continue making slightly different crap. Goto 1. I still see microwave popcorn bags, teflon pans and plastic tea bags in shops. The local municipality still pretend that it's all being recycled. It needs to be phased out of food industry leaded fuel as phased out of gas.

There's still no replacement (must be at least as cheap), so it will keep going for quite a while. Maybe plant or mushroom fibers can eventually take over some of the market.

> must be at least as cheap

No, we need goods with extremely long life, even if they get expensive.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#246

Post by teekert » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 1:59 PM UTC

y7 wrote: post #145

teekert wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are seeing a steady increase in childhood cancer [0] and our male population now has half the sperm count the same population had in 70s [1]. [0]: https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2020/212/3/incidence-childhoo... [1]: https://backreaction.blogspot.com/2022/11/why-are-male-testo...

Those things could be related to any change in society. There's nothing to suggest it's plastics in particular, right?

FWIW I think this is a good remark. It's just correlation until proven otherwise. I was just saying there are changes in society, one of which is the widespread use of plastics, and there are changes in population health roughly starting along the same time. But indeed, we also started to do sitting work massively, and started using wireless communications etc.

Then again, we also reduced coal use in cities, we burn less wood in our houses, etc.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#247

Post by svnt » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 2:04 PM UTC

cj wrote: post #195

aziaziazi wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a parent, but curious: can’t you microwave glass booties ? I do microwave water in glass and don’t see problems. Is it the fragility of the glass ? In that case I guess any fabric protection can solve it ?

Not a parent, but guessing glass is bad because kids tend to throw things and glass is breakable.

They sell silicone bottle wraps that basically eliminate this concern.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#248

Post by astura » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 2:06 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #88

userbinator wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly were those studies on? Those bags are almost certainly polyethyelene without any additives, which is safe and has been in widespread use for almost a century. Petroleum jelly is far more reactive than PE, although it's substantially the same chemical structure, yet most of us regularly use it on our skin. If the biggest concern about sous vide is the plastic, then I think that's a very strong argument fo…

>Petroleum jelly [...] most of us regularly use it on our skin. I think I've used it maybe a handful of times in my whole life; once a year at the very most. Do you mind expanding on your statement here?

It's an ingredient in many topical medicines, like antibiotics ointment. Also an ingredient in some lip balms and lotions (like Aquaphor).

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#249

Post by boondoggle16 » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 2:06 PM UTC

jawon wrote: post #213

softwaredoug wrote: post #203

FYI you can buy glass “Tupperware” that works better than the plastic stuff. It’s more durable and easier to clean. Why did we start even buying plastic containers for this purpose?

Glass chips and breaks. "Tupperware" can take punishment for years. Decades even. Our household started replacing plastic containers with glass last year and we've already cracked 3 and smashed 1. The plastics, used for pet food now, are unchanged.

Strange, I rarely break any of mine, and even when I do, I just replace it

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#250

Post by balaji1 » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 2:22 PM UTC

y7 wrote: post #145

teekert wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are seeing a steady increase in childhood cancer [0] and our male population now has half the sperm count the same population had in 70s [1]. [0]: https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2020/212/3/incidence-childhoo... [1]: https://backreaction.blogspot.com/2022/11/why-are-male-testo...

Those things could be related to any change in society. There's nothing to suggest it's plastics in particular, right?

> There's nothing to suggest it's plastics in particular

Sometimes wonder if these arguments are just devil’s advocating. I mean do you avoid heating food in plastic for you and yours? Or are you so scientific that you believe it’s fine until proven otherwise?

Said another way, if you were to bet money, which way would you bet - that plastics are benign?