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Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

latimes.com

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Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#241

Post by angarg12 »

JackFr wrote: post #86

So big tech has 220,000 layoffs and there is not the merest hint of a blip in the unemployment rate. This is not a tragedy - these people are going to find jobs, good jobs. In fact it's quite likely that they will go into roles which might do something other than online advertising. You know, something useful.

As an immigrant tech worker on visa (L1 to be specific) I find this comment cruel and tone deaf.

Losing my job means losing my status, which means having to leave the country in short notice, my wife losing her job as well, and uprooting my family (again). Sure, I would survive, but I would definitely call it a personal tragedy.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#242

Post by ye-olde-sysrq »

pessimizer wrote: post #74
jkaplowitz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In countries with strong labor laws, that rapid dramatic unilateral change in working location itself would count as similar to a sudden firing without cause for workers who don't want to accept the change in work location, either for all such workers or for those who can't easily begin or resume a commute to the office on such short notice. I wish the US had stronger labor laws. :(

The US has extremely strong labor laws in favor of the employer.

My personal favorite one is where under at-will employment, either party can end the relationship at any time, which generally translates to:

At any time:

the company is free to simply make do with one fewer person

and

the employee is free to simply make do without affordable health/dental/vision insurance, a pay check, a retirement account, and other such niceties.

Great deal. Very balanced and fair.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#243

Post by notacoward »

theptip wrote: post #104

I just don’t buy it. To be clear this is claiming that the CEOs are sitting behind a desk stroking a cat, thinking “now I will crush the labor movement and make all my workers feel less secure”. This is just not a problem that Pichai is facing. Occam’s Razor points to the very simple, non-conspiratorial answer that it really is just stock-price driven (ie market-driven) thinking (one could say “lack of actual strateg…

> it really is just stock-price driven

The two are not mutually exclusive. The infamous TCI letter even draws a line between out-of-control employee compensation and stock price. Rightly or wrongly (and in my personal opinion wrongly) the common view in finance is that employee power is bad for business.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#244

Post by bbor »

randomdata wrote: post #196
typon wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very surprising though. Most of Silicon Valley and HN royalty is staunchly libertarian. VCs doing zero labour and getting rich off the backs of workers is a phenomena that cant easily be defended unless you buy into this ideology.

> Most of Silicon Valley and HN royalty is staunchly libertarian. Unions are a libertarian concept. Freedom of association is the fundamental underpinning of libertarianism. Those at the other end of the spectrum stand for supply management instead.

Very interesting assertion, never read that before! Do you think we need more governmental protections of unions?

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#245

Post by p0pcult »

aeternum wrote: post #183
s1artibartfast wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that they have changed. People brought it up before and people are bringing it up now and they'll continue bringing it up. I think the tech workers are generally still opposed to the idea

Imagine how terrible it would be to be on a team with subpar engineers with some kind of tenure / union protection so they cannot be fired. I think this is a big reason tech workers are opposed to the idea.

Imagine how terrible it would be to be on a team with a guy who thinks that employers treat all people with due process always.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#246

Post by charcircuit »

Phlarp wrote: post #20

Guess tech workers should have unionized when they had the chance. As if capital was going to let the most powerful group of workers that's ever existed continue to slip their noose

Even if I was in a union I would still vote to have a layoff. Most of my compensation is in stock so I want what is best for the stock price.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#247

Post by anthonypasq »

angarg12 wrote: post #241
JackFr wrote: post #86

So big tech has 220,000 layoffs and there is not the merest hint of a blip in the unemployment rate. This is not a tragedy - these people are going to find jobs, good jobs. In fact it's quite likely that they will go into roles which might do something other than online advertising. You know, something useful.

As an immigrant tech worker on visa (L1 to be specific) I find this comment cruel and tone deaf. Losing my job means losing my status, which means having to leave the country in short notice, my wife losing her job as well, and uprooting my family (again). Sure, I would survive , but I would definitely call it a personal tragedy.

were you under the impression your job was guaranteed for life?

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#248

Post by shmatt »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #175

Right before COVID-19 stay at home order in Chicago, a bunch of improvisers who preformed at the popular i.o theater put together a list of demands which basically asked for a bunch of changes to make the lives of performers better. They were not going to perform until those changes were made. The owner didnt respond for a few days and then said, "Hey! Heard you. Great valid concerns. But I'm actually shutting the th…

The federal, state, and even city governments paid millions to business owners. So it was an easy decision in 2020

Could the same owner shut down for a full year without thinking twice, just to avoid giving people a few more bucks an hour in 2023? I doubt it

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#249

Post by randomdata »

bbor wrote: post #244
randomdata wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of Silicon Valley and HN royalty is staunchly libertarian. Unions are a libertarian concept. Freedom of association is the fundamental underpinning of libertarianism. Those at the other end of the spectrum stand for supply management instead.

Very interesting assertion, never read that before! Do you think we need more governmental protections of unions?

I don't have opinions, but if you are implying that unions aren't working, perhaps supply management is a more appropriate solution to the problem?

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#250

Post by olivermarks »

superfrank wrote: post #172
theptip wrote: post #104

I just don’t buy it. To be clear this is claiming that the CEOs are sitting behind a desk stroking a cat, thinking “now I will crush the labor movement and make all my workers feel less secure”. This is just not a problem that Pichai is facing. Occam’s Razor points to the very simple, non-conspiratorial answer that it really is just stock-price driven (ie market-driven) thinking (one could say “lack of actual strateg…

Same. It sells papers right now to paint CEOs as these omniscient villains who's only goal is the crush their workers, but I just don't buy it. There are plenty of CEOs like Satya Nadella who seem like pretty decent people. I'm sure some companies see this as a way to drive down worker leverage, but I think a lot are just reacting to the market change and realizing they have more employees than they need in areas tha…

Ironically the 4700 people at the NYT aren't the happiest bunch right now either. The bigger the company the weirder relationships with employees, 'associates' and consultants gets. In large orgs noisy, brown nosing people often do very well regardless of talent. In our era this seems to be a card to play against the firing squad selection algos. People who forcefully push for inclusion of trendy ideas and movements (DEI, Climate anxiety etc) into the core of the firm can be perceived as not in the best interests of the giant money making machine, which like a shark has to keep swimming forward to survive... and bean counter pseudo innovators like Satya Nadella quietly wield the mallet..

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/07/business/media/new-york-t...

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