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Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

latimes.com

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Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#71

Post by s1artibartfast »

kilgnad wrote: post #47
Phlarp wrote: post #20

Guess tech workers should have unionized when they had the chance. As if capital was going to let the most powerful group of workers that's ever existed continue to slip their noose

In the last decade or so, there were several times I brought this up on HN (anonymously), and each time my opinion was attacked as not making any sense. Times change.

I'm not sure that they have changed. People brought it up before and people are bringing it up now and they'll continue bringing it up.

I think the tech workers are generally still opposed to the idea

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#72

Post by johnrob »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #24

does this imply the lay-offs were a product of collusion at the executive level across the entire sector? If anyone could find evidence of that it would be extremely news-worthy. If I might adorn my hat of tin-foil for a second; at a big corp I used to work at, I heard execs predicting this outcome back in early 2022 in combination with being incredibly relaxed about the employment market being extremely hot at the t…

Didn’t Nash (mathematician) prove that collusion is possible without explicit coordination (a form of game theory perhaps)?

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#73

Post by tukantje »

Phlarp wrote: post #20

Guess tech workers should have unionized when they had the chance. As if capital was going to let the most powerful group of workers that's ever existed continue to slip their noose

I have been screaming this for a while but average tech worker is a "future billionaire" so... It might be the greatest lie we are made to believe.

edit: most of us have zero to no protection, our jobs are not protected also from titles perspective. the only reason the power asymmetry is palatable was due to supply/demand for engineers. take that away, what do you have left?

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#74

Post by pessimizer »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #26
GoToRO wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One company did exactlly that: everybody must be in the office in 3 weeks, 25% quit, no layoffs needed.

In countries with strong labor laws, that rapid dramatic unilateral change in working location itself would count as similar to a sudden firing without cause for workers who don't want to accept the change in work location, either for all such workers or for those who can't easily begin or resume a commute to the office on such short notice. I wish the US had stronger labor laws. :(

The US has extremely strong labor laws in favor of the employer.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#75

Post by toyg »

noorkersz wrote: post #21
rmorey wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Union-busting, NDA’s, restricting new slack channels, non-competes - all the usual ways!

This response just turns my question into: why haven't the usual ways been sufficient for the rest of the tech companies? why are the usual ways still sufficient for apple but not for the others???

From what I read, Apple has never been ashamed of running on a model that clearly states "this is not a democracy, Dear Leader has all the power". Because they can attract talent on an ideological level, they just don't need to care on a day to day level. See also all the military-level secrecy, cult-like behavior, etc etc.

Other companies try to mealy-mouth their way around the facts of life, most of the time, because they have an "evil" image so wouldn't be able to recruit otherwise.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#76

Post by Fedtoo »

kilgnad wrote: post #47
Phlarp wrote: post #20

Guess tech workers should have unionized when they had the chance. As if capital was going to let the most powerful group of workers that's ever existed continue to slip their noose

In the last decade or so, there were several times I brought this up on HN (anonymously), and each time my opinion was attacked as not making any sense. Times change.

Less than we might like to think: https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/27/business/job-insecurity-o...

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#77

Post by boringg »

m3kw9 wrote: post #57

Or maybe it’s just a balance sheet thing

Agreed it seems a beyond far fetched here to think that the backlash from the free money pandemic spending period is collusion to shutdown worker power. To me it seems more like all the executives are seriously concerned about their revenue and costs going forward into a recession that was increasingly clear as a function of deteriorating macro economic conditions.

There seem to be a lot of easier options to justify the actions than the one in the article. I'm not against tech unionizing I unfortunately find the argument weak however tantalizing for those who might prefer conspiracy theories.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#78

Post by NegativeLatency »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #66
gilbert_vanova wrote: post #11

I had a manager namecheck the layoffs as a reason they don't need to move on addressing any of our team's concerns about working conditions. Same manager invoked the Nuremburg Defense the other day. Trying times.

> I had a manager namecheck the layoffs as a reason they don't need to move on addressing any of our team's concerns about working conditions. What does "namecheck" mean in this context?

Guessing it means they named the companies out loud, presumably to scare employees

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#79

Post by andsoitis »

GoToRO wrote: post #18
xt00 wrote: post #15

Would be interesting to see if there is a strong relationship between the companies doing layoffs and the companies who did WFH en masse and might be thinking a layoff will “encourage” their compliance to come back to the office.

One company did exactlly that: everybody must be in the office in 3 weeks, 25% quit, no layoffs needed.

Which company?

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#80

Post by tukantje »

arcticbull wrote: post #70
giantg2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would the union solve in this specific instance? Tech has had high pay gor a long time, mostly due to cheap money. If the cheap money goes away, how do they pay these inflated salaries? Overall, I think unions can be good because you have clear terms defined in a contract. That provides a more fair environment when it comes to worker treatment, calibration, etc. But I don't see it helping with pay in most cases,…

Nothing to do with cheap money, tech companies are some of the most profitable and revenue efficient companies in history.

For the love of lord please keep saying this.

Because it is true. And because I am sick and tired of this self hate of "inflated salaries". Jesus, we are working in one of the most profitable industries, whatever we build tends to be a long term force multiplier, and somehow a large portion of the sector thinks our earnings are inflated.

The earnings of a hedge fund manager who makes 1.5 million pounds a day is inflated. Not a software engineer living a decidedly middle class life.

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