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Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

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Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#241

Post by Godel_unicode »

edgyquant wrote: post #238
Godel_unicode wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a good faith answer, it is however the type of thing that turns a lot of people off to cryptocurrency. If you google decentralized service in an incognito tab you’ll see why people ask this. The rest of the world gets Wikipedia articles about engineering distributed systems (like database clusters) and distributed consensus (like raft). Since that’s (probably) not what you mean, I submit that as the perso…

I specifically stated that I was not referring to cryptocurrency, I’m certainly not an advocate. Every engineer knows what a decentralized service is and any who doesn’t will Google the term. You are asking it bad faith hoping I was a cryptobro. It’s an obvious red herring and I’m not feeding the troll.

That’s quite the chip you have on your shoulder, too bad. Could have been an interesting discussion. For instance, Web 1.0 was already a decentralized system, as was the DNS which came before it. Why the version change?

Questions have been asked, and vitriol has been your only response. Who’s actually the troll, one wonders.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#242

Post by pwinnski »

lakomen wrote: post #228
pwinnski wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think by 2030, all global governments and their citizens will voluntarily give away control over what they can consume and create to Google and Apple? It'll be Baidu and Tencent, but yes. This is already happening, and the internet is becoming more centralized, not less. Global traffic is balkanized, but it's split up among regional centralized controlling interesting, not no controlling interests. > Betting…

Balkanized is an interesting choice of word. It even has a Google definition, to divide countries and make them enemies of each other. Yet another victim of US imperialism. I weep for what was once a free and friendly nation. The kids nowadays are taught to hate their neighbors instead of learning how their parents or grandparents were part of a resistance that fought faschist Germany. That's just an aside. Nothing t…

I'm truly sorry for triggering bad memories. I spent some time with a European refugee now living in the US, and it definitely helped shape how I think about things. I probably should avoid using the word in public spaces.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#243

Post by web3isgoing »

lottin wrote: post #231
web3isgoing wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t that the point? The protocols are built to resist changes by single entities and continue working as expected, handling user deposits non custodially, regardless of market activity. HN can declare a dozen crypto deaths with each new CEX and Uniswap will just keep filling orders for whoever is sending value through it.

I don't know, you're declaring victory because applications didn't stop working during the downturn, but I don't know that the problem was that applications stopped working during the downturn but rather that various service providers ran into financial trouble.

The goals of DeFi and web3 is to create structures that do not rely on centralized service providers, and are able to resist control of single bad actors and provide certain clear and transparent security guarantees. In that they have so far succeeded.

I wouldn’t call it victory yet. We still have years of figuring out which blockchain, DEX and DeFi models work and which will fail, most of this new tech is only a couple years into development. But the long term 10+ year vision seems clearer.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#244

Post by rhn_mk1 »

smoldesu wrote: post #207
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's next-gen is the federation, as opposed to the centralization of the current-gen. HTTP has nothing to do with it, even the "semantic 3.0" didn't ditch it.

That's not next-gen. Federation has existed since the 90s in the form of P2P trackers and other networking paradigms. HTTP has everything to do with it because Mastodon is built on a client-server model (not a peer-to-peer one) which is the textbook definition of a Web2 network.

When web 2.0 entered the picture, it didn't bring in anything new either, but represented a different focus. I think my proposal makes sense as "3.0" because similarly, there's not much new except a new focus in it.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#245

Post by mschuster91 »

foobiekr wrote: post #180
mschuster91 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A seamless on-ramp from a bank account to a crypto wallet will really change the way we pay for things online. What? Why? Here in Europe, you can just pay with SEPA direct debit. You don't need credit cards or paper checks to pay for stuff, neither in the meatspace nor online. The only thing services like PayPal are good for is fraud protection (for both sides). So much of what we see in the US financial industry a…

In the us the credit card option has very strong statutory consumer protections. As a rule people should be using credit cards, not debit cards. I am fascinated by the ridiculous claims that this somehow makes things hard.

> In the us the credit card option has very strong statutory consumer protections. As a rule people should be using credit cards, not debit cards.

... and pay a lot of interest to their banks as a result. Here in Europe, we don't need to pay interest for credit cards or worry about paying CC bills on time to avoid them, as we have strong consumer protection laws in general and SEPA direct debits can be clawed back no-questions-asked for three days.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#246

Post by nailer »

weego wrote: post #120
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying for things ONLINE with a crypto wallet is legitimately a far, far better experience than fumbling around with credit cards. A seamless on-ramp from a bank account to a crypto wallet will really change the way we pay for things online. I believe this on-ramp is coming with CBDCs. Edit: HN is hopelessly anti Wayne Gretzky when it comes to crypto :D Edit 2: I should have mentioned 'online'

This is the standard US centric viewpoint driving this nonsense. Every other developed nation and a lot of lower developed nations solved this long enough ago that it's not even thought about. I have to use my physical card maybe once every 2 months/once per quarter as an anti-fraud step. My phone contactless pays for everything, and anything it can't (like a car or whatever) I can do sub 2 hour but in practice insta…

> Moving money instantly and without transaction costs is a decade plus ago solved problem

Where? Having lived in various cities in Europe, Asia and Australia, I can assure you, Visa and Wise and Remitly is still taking from half to 3 percent of all your transactions.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#247

Post by lottin »

web3isgoing wrote: post #243
lottin wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, you're declaring victory because applications didn't stop working during the downturn, but I don't know that the problem was that applications stopped working during the downturn but rather that various service providers ran into financial trouble.

The goals of DeFi and web3 is to create structures that do not rely on centralized service providers, and are able to resist control of single bad actors and provide certain clear and transparent security guarantees. In that they have so far succeeded. I wouldn’t call it victory yet. We still have years of figuring out which blockchain, DEX and DeFi models work and which will fail, most of this new tech is only a cou…

DeFi really is just a series of distributed (not necessarily decentralised) applications that enable parties to enter into agreements involving virtual tokens without the need for a contractual agreement between them. Not relying on contractual agreements places enormous constraints on what DeFi can do. For example, DeFi can't handle counterparty risk at all. Therefore DeFi doesn't remove the need for conventional financial institutions that rely on contractual agreements, such as so-called "centralised exchanges" and "lending platforms". It's disingenuous to say DeFi is fine because it didn't fail unlike those centralised exchanges, because DeFi doesn't (and can't) provide the same services that centralised exchanges provide (namely, custodial services and trading that isn't limited to virtual tokens).

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#248

Post by nailer »

pwinnski wrote: post #208
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a 2.5% fee to Visa

Which, in the US, is paid by the vendor, and so invisible. And worth it, given the protections against fraud, etc. If you're claiming that there are vendors giving a 2.5% discount for using crypto for anything, you've got some evidence to produce. P.S. It's not always 2.5%, either. Could be 1.5% at scale.

> If you're claiming that there are vendors giving a 2.5% discount for using crypto for anything, you've got some evidence to produce.

Or more, yes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OxtTGml564 that said technically Visa will punish you by removing you from their network for doing this.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#249

Post by nailer »

jnwatson wrote: post #59
nailer wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web3 isn't about cryptocurrency, it's about owning your own identity instead of Google, Apple, Facebook.

“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’ You are free to think that, but most folks' use of the term relates strongly to cryptocurrency.

> You are free to think that, but most folks' use of the term relates strongly to cryptocurrency.

Most people have no idea what web3 or web 2.0 is. But yes, the common definition is the decentralised web. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web3

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#250

Post by web3isgoing »

lottin wrote: post #247
web3isgoing wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goals of DeFi and web3 is to create structures that do not rely on centralized service providers, and are able to resist control of single bad actors and provide certain clear and transparent security guarantees. In that they have so far succeeded. I wouldn’t call it victory yet. We still have years of figuring out which blockchain, DEX and DeFi models work and which will fail, most of this new tech is only a cou…

DeFi really is just a series of distributed (not necessarily decentralised) applications that enable parties to enter into agreements involving virtual tokens without the need for a contractual agreement between them. Not relying on contractual agreements places enormous constraints on what DeFi can do. For example, DeFi can't handle counterparty risk at all. Therefore DeFi doesn't remove the need for conventional fi…

DeFi never claims to provide the exact same fiat and off-chain services as CeFi and CEX. It has specific goals, like replacing custody with non-custody, or replacing a centralized exchange with an automated market maker that no single party can control.

This has different risks and trade-offs, obviously, but users who opted for Uniswap instead of FTX as their crypto exchange are probably pretty happy with their decision.

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