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Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

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241–250 of 369 posts

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#241

I am sure the Afghan Taliban and the Iranian Mullahs agree: You can't put a price on female virtue/modesty/chastity. So while keeping our women locked away at home depresses the GDP, it is a misleading measure of national success anyway.

Are they wrong?

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#242
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong turn? Rat race? Compared to what? Your ancestors 200 years ago were malnourished, working the fields all day to eke out a miserable existence, never enjoying a single luxury in life. They didn't know how to read or write, and in any case wouldn't have had time for such luxurious activities. Human progress has brought us to the point where we have the free time to complain about how disadvantaged we are and how…

The "once decent living standards were assured" part covers this.

"decent living standards" are a moving target; the definition is always relative to what is currently possible. in mill's time, this might have amounted to having a roof to sleep under and a reliable source of calories. germ theory of disease was just starting to gain acceptance in the latter part of his lifetime. today we seriously consider providing free healthcare to all, and in some countries this is already a reality.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that math isn’t correct. If you are in the minority, there is no compromise in democracy. The level of care you receive is exactly 0 if the majority voted against you. 20 years ago you couldn’t have 40% of a gay marriage, it was just no gay marriage.

People typically live for more than just a single issue. Averaged over many thousands of issues, some of which you end up enjoying benefits from and some of which you end up suffering penalties from, and after many years of residence, it does work out that way.

it might.

It might, if we didn't split votes by district, then by county, then by state, and bundle them.

It might if our representation weren't purposefully skewed to favor states with let populations.

It might if there were runoff voting.

It might if there weren't an electoral college, circumventing all that already miserable voting procedure.

It might if voting we're a national holiday.

It might if we had a choice that wasn't "this pile of shit over here" versus "that mass of excrementt over there". Really, they're different!

It might if, after the elections were over, there wasn't a whole industry, made up of politician's former colleagues, making truckloads of money to peddle influence on behalf of big business and billionaires.

To believe that our democratic process does anything to connect the political zeitgeist of the people to actual policy is to believe in the tooth fairy.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#244
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While RFK sometimes got help from Edwin Guthman and Peter Edelman, he also spoke extemporaneously sometimes, most famously when he had to announce the death of Martin Luther King to a crowd that hadn't yet heard the news: https://kennedykingindy.org/full-rfk-speech

Where are the politicians today who can quote Aeschylus at will? What happened to our national discourse that we’ve filled it with dimwits?

The Onion once joked that this may be more due to the public they’re appealing to than inability:

> In a serious miscalculation that may prove devastating to his bid for a second term, President Barack Obama neglected Tuesday to simplify a statement to the point where it could readily be grasped by anyone with the vocabulary of an 8-year-old. "Instead of saying, 'There are many global variables at work here, and unless they all fall into place, we could find ourselves back in a recession,' he should have just said, 'Times are hard. We gotta be strong,'"

https://www.theonion.com/in-major-gaffe-obama-forgets-to-dum...

Of course, they also joked about how absurd it would be for George W Bush to show literary depth:

https://www.theonion.com/bush-regales-dinner-guests-with-imp...

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#245
post #135

The gig economy boosts GDP. If I work as an employee, I am just an expense to a company. If I setup an S corporation and contract my services to that same company, I am now growing the services sector and increasing GDP. I am still doing the same amount of work but just increasing transactions. I seem to be incentivized by pay and taxes to work as contractor, and this may be because the government is trying to pump G…

No, if you contract your services to that company, your contribution to GDP gets cancelled out by the intermediate consumption of that company purchasing your services. The GDP is the same either way.

How does it get cancelled out? Take this example: Company A has $1M revenue from creating services or products. Then my company B invoices company A for $250K. GDP is $1.25M. I do not report who I billed to the government who compiles GDP. So I don't see how they can not include my services as part of GDP.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#246
post #236
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a terrible analogy. GDP is like measuring how useful the car is.

Measuring how useful the car is would be perfect. GDP is like measuring how useful the car is by its market value.

Right, and usefulness (however defined - hauls cargo, go fast, fuel efficient, looks sexy) determined demand which influences market prices (assuming supply isn’t overly restricted).

So market price tends to be a pretty good proxy for usefulness.

People who complain about GDP as a measure are usually just complaining about things they don’t like that go into GDP like pointless (to them) consumer goods.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#247
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hrm, I went to public school in the 1980s and received a fair facsimile of a classical education.

It seems like it coincided with differences in attitude about education. I’ve forgotten the exact stats, but in decades past college students overwhelming said the purpose of college was to develop a philosophy of life whereas now the predominant answer is to find a good job.

I think this is the wrong way to characterize this change. What changed isn't the attitudes of individual students, but rather the demographics of the students themselves. In the ages past most people did not go to college, and most jobs did not require a degree, so only those who could afford to (upper class) went, and for those people, getting a job simply isn't that big of a concern.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#248
post #211

Robert Kennedy, on the campaign trail in 1968: "Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our Gross National Product, now, is over $800 billion dollars a year, but that Gross National Product - if we judge the United States of America by that - that Gross National Product counts air pollution and cigarette advertising…

This is a BS political speech and it is very politically motivated. When you can't fix the economy (get GDP up), just claim the GDP doesn't matter. My country's president just claimed we should focus on National Happiness Product. Of course, when all your economical policies fail, economy is just numbers. And no, having an accident doesn't increase GDP. If the passengers dies, that will remove their GDP from society.…

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Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#249
post #248
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a BS political speech and it is very politically motivated. When you can't fix the economy (get GDP up), just claim the GDP doesn't matter. My country's president just claimed we should focus on National Happiness Product. Of course, when all your economical policies fail, economy is just numbers. And no, having an accident doesn't increase GDP. If the passengers dies, that will remove their GDP from society.…

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Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#250
>GDP measures mainly market transactions. It ignores social costs, environmental impacts and income inequality.

But GDP's role was never to measure income inequality, environmental impacts, diversity, affirmative actions. It was always an economic tool, not a SJW tool.

As an economic tool it just measures how well a country is able to produce and sell goods and services. And for that purpose I know no other better tool than it and it's derivative, GDP per capita adjusted for PPP.

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