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When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

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Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#241

Post by vdqtp3 »

djur wrote: post #236
gldnspud wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps leave sarcasm out of technical blog posts, or add a footnote to indicate sarcasm? I couldn't tell you were being sarcastic and it seems others couldn't as well. I only found out through this comment. Text is the worst medium for sarcasm since sarcasm is often signaled by vocal inflection or body language, neither of which are present in your post.

"The solution is trivial: [possible solution]! Well, unfortunately, [problem with solution]." The issue here isn't so much sarcasm than that "is" should be read as "seems" here. But I don't see any other idiomatic reading that is sincerely calling the solution trivial.

> But I don't see any other idiomatic reading that is sincerely calling the solution trivial.

Agreed - it may not be obvious on first glance, but there's no other reasonable reading.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#242

Post by starburst »

aulin wrote: post #224
starburst wrote: post #59

Casey's next stream [1] will probably be very entertaining! Back when the original drama unfold I could very much empathize with his frustration. Let's not forget they told him that what he was suggesting was the work of a PHD when any game developer worth his grain of salt could do that very trivially. [1] https://www.twitch.tv/handmade_hero

Devs over and underestimate effort all the time

Sure but in this case it was grossly over-estimated compared to the under-estimated side. Casey did the implementation [1] to prove the point and also made explanatory videos [2] of it.

[1] https://github.com/cmuratori/refterm [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxM8QmyZXtg&t=1052s

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#243

Post by ineedasername »

markus_zhang wrote: post #209
ineedasername wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fake smile at least tells me they know that a different response would be unprofessional, rather than making the an unprofessional comment and not being self aware enough to realize it until it's pointed out.

Since this is not a professional place I think it's OK. I mean if Casey can rant then he should be able too. Of course I guess it doesn't look good and I'm fine with that.

Sure, this is an informal environment, but Casey is acting as an individual working on an issue in their own time. The MS employee above is acting as a defacto representative of MS whenever they speak about their work in public.

Casey is also responding to unprofessionalism initiated by MS. (Though admittedly the "they started it" defense isn't a great one)

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#244

Post by phaistra »

bena wrote: post #210
QuikAccount wrote: post #79

Anyone who knows anything about Casey Muratori knows that nice and humble are not usually words associated with him. That is not to say the devs he is calling out are in the right. Frankly, I just see a bunch of combative assholes arguing with each other.

Yeah, DHowett's and LHeckler's responses were kind of dickish, but Casey's own words, tone, and attitude aren't doing him any favors either. Casey happens to be right on the technical issue in this case and people are just glossing over all the ways in which he was also wrong. Now, personally, I believe it was the WT Team's responsibility to let it go as they're representatives of a larger organization and as such ho…

How was Casey wrong?

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#245

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #233
Longhanks wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the Windows Terminal team reeks of this. There's so many blog posts saying look, we're so smart because they're reimplementing something both Linux and macOS had for *years*, as if the whole world of CLI was waiting for their savior.

> There's so many blog posts saying look, we're so smart Have you read Casey's twitter feed? The man routinely goes into long twitter thread rants about how stupid everyone else is. His favorite target seems to be...drumroll please...large corporation software teams.

> rants about how stupid everyone else is.

> His favorite target seems to be...drumroll please...large corporation software teams.

To be fair, that's... not unreasonable. I've thought unkind things about large corporate software teams while I was working at said large corp.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#246

Post by sodality2 »

______-_-______ wrote: post #195
DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

Yikes. Ego and open source do not mix well.

Ego and human interaction doesn't. Open source just exposes those clashes publicly.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#247

Post by __ryan__ »

lhecker wrote: post #139

Hi! I'm the person who wrote that blog post. If you have any questions whatsoever, please let me know! English is not my native language and "The solution is trivial" was meant sarcastic. The solution isn't trivial at all, nor is it complete, because solving the corner cases is complex. I'd also like to mention ahead of time that DirectWrite/Direct2D is very fast at drawing western (Latin) text without coloring (>200…

"Sarcasm" unfortunately has a negative connotation. It makes it sound like you were being spiteful.

In practice, I interpreted the text as "There's a simple solution... but we cannot use it", which is a perfectly fine thing to say, in my opinion.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#248

Post by juki »

behnamoh wrote: post #238
juki wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows Terminal is a separate project from PowerShell. It's just a terminal that you can use with different shells (including PowerShell). I have no idea what their blog posts are saying, but at least I've always found it pretty nice.

PS has been pretty slow though. I’ve liked the fact that you can pipe objects, but it seems to slow down the startup time of the shell.

True, the slow startup is annoying (especially if you load modules in your profile), but overall I still think it's better than the alternatives. I usually just keep a terminal window always open.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#249

Post by Accacin »

So I've got to say that IMO, all of this seems pretty silly.

Casey does come across as pretty rude sometimes (saying this with respect, as I love Handmade Hero and his other work) and the Windows Terminal developers seems like they were a bit egotistical to just discount his idea as they did.

The blog post by Leonard H seems pretty tame. The "solution is trivial" comment I took as sarcasm (but I'm British so maybe I just assume everything is sarcasm :).

The only bit I found a little odd was about one of the developers joining a Discord server under a fake username. If that did happen, it seems like it was a bad idea.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#250

Post by bfgoodrich »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #227
miiiiiike wrote: post #37

Issue: Feeling bad after interaction with OSS developer at . Steps to reproduce: 1) Report a bug. 2) Get called dumb by developers at . 3) Demonstrate that it is, in fact, a bug with examples, test cases, and offer a potential fix/PR. 4) Hear that it’s being “handled internally”. 5) Wait for the blog post re-iterating what they called dumb, talking about how great the team is that fixed it, and see your demonstration…

Quoted post unavailable.

https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/issues/10362

The original discussion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the way the Casey individual approaches it. At all. And yes it is simple. If your basic text terminal gets 30 FPS on modern hardware (or worse), you have started with a bad foundation. That is just gross.

The NYT commentary is a bit hilarious as you see that claim on here daily, repeatedly.

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