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New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

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Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#241

Post by ZYinMD »

ksec wrote: post #185
kalleboo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish they'd add an option to disable webp, it's really annoying to save a photo and get it in a format that's supported almost nowhere.

It was just the other day I am thinking, may be all photos saved from the web should either be JPEG ( direct download from the page ) or it would be saved as lossless PNG. We now end up adding AVIF, WebP, possibly JPEGXL, the upcoming WebP2, and what else? I am not entirely sure more format is a good idea.

WebP is strictly better than jpeg though.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#242

Post by fleddr »

Credit where credit is due: this is a rarely good release.

Cynical me has observed this annual pattern where Apple just before their developer conference suddenly becomes "genuinely" interested in the web community and actively listens to feedback. Then, things get back to normal, which means they don't implement anything, all feedback goes to /dev/null, documentation is lacking and bugs are never solved.

It's hard to get past this cynical angle because even in this release they're boasting about how they're "first" to implement something, whilst it remains to be the browser lagging years behind. Typical Apple, fluffy marketing with zero self-reflection.

I did see there's lots of webkit vacancies at Apple now, so one can hope things are changing for the better. Probably because it looks better to regulators.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#243

Post by Devasta »

enos_feedler wrote: post #181
ben-schaaf wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Our product doesn't work in safari, use chrome or firefox instead"

The web is built on the foundation I can use any browser. You are going to break the fundamental promise just to avoid working around a bug?

"Best viewed in IE" was the norm for years and years, supporting only the major browsers has pretty much always been the case.

Before Opera gave up and became another Chrome reskin, there were plenty of sites that didn't work for me until I set the user agent to match another browser.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#244

Post by tiffanyh »

om2 wrote: post #222
tiffanyh wrote: post #58

> Developers can now enable Navigation Preload in ServiceWorker to improve load performance and avoid ServiceWorker startup delays that block network requests Does that mean finally works on Safari?

Navigation Preload is a different feature that is specific to Service Workers. ` ` has been supported in Safari for a while, since 11.x.

Whoops, I meant ‘prefetch’, not preload.

https://caniuse.com/?search=prefetch

Thanks for catching my mistake.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#245

Post by youngtaff »

donatj wrote: post #57

> WebKit added support for lazy-loading images with the loading attribute on the element, providing web developers with an easy way to instruct the browser to defer loading certain images until the user scrolls near them Maybe there's hope that I can then just turn this off on a browser level? I've got gigabit internet at home, and your images popping in on scroll makes it feel like I'm on dial up. Lazy loading image…

> Lazy loading images is at best user hostile bandwidth saving, and it's not even that much in this day and age.

Poorly implemented lazy loading of images is probably the culprit here

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#246

Post by merrywhether »

ryanbrunner wrote: post #129
doctor_eval wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you’re Chrome, in which case it’s really great. /s

Being first is fine so long as you're not last in anything. If you announce that you're the first do to something and you're the only one who hasn't done something else, you're holding back everyone so you can introduce features no one can really use.

You mean features like Portal and FLoC?

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#247

Post by agust »

barrell wrote: post #236
inopinatus wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Webkit is not committed to fully implementing the HTML Living Standard, or more precisely, they are committed to killing off the parts they don't like by declining to implement them. They point-blank refuse to implement Customized Built-in Elements, for example, and in such (unusually, for the context) vehement, uncompromising, and unconstructive language¹ that I can only surmise some Apple apparatchik's fragile ego…

As a long time web dev who primarily uses Safari for development, I find myself constantly looking for workarounds for Chrome. I do admit sometimes I feel Safari to be lagging behind, but I think it's a far cry from the 'new IE'. At the very least it's not a given that it's the problem browser for developers.

That's definitely not representative of the general sentiment. As far as I'm concerned, probably around 95% of my debugging time is spent on Safari. Stuff usually works like a charm in Chrome or Firefox. Safari is a gigantic pain due to its plethora of bugs (and new ones appearing with each release) and missing features preventing you to easily work around them.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#249

Post by agust »

tarsinge wrote: post #233
inopinatus wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Webkit is not committed to fully implementing the HTML Living Standard, or more precisely, they are committed to killing off the parts they don't like by declining to implement them. They point-blank refuse to implement Customized Built-in Elements, for example, and in such (unusually, for the context) vehement, uncompromising, and unconstructive language¹ that I can only surmise some Apple apparatchik's fragile ego…

> Safari remains the "new IE", the problem browser for which developers must find workarounds. More like the non-Chrome browser for which Chrome developers must find workarounds. I can't remember encountering a Safari specific problem in the tens of websites I have developed in the last years. Now sure I understand the pain if you are developing web apps instead, but in that case maybe it's time to assume Chrome is a…

Sure, simple websites mostly work in Safari. But we're in 2022, and indeed a lot of companies develop web apps, and not simple websites like 20 years ago.

The web itself is an app platform. The only browser preventing it to happen on mobile is Safari. Have a look at the desktop. There, web apps have replaced most native apps long ago.

Re: New WebKit features in Safari 15.4

#250

Post by dmitriid »

agust wrote: post #249
tarsinge wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Safari remains the "new IE", the problem browser for which developers must find workarounds. More like the non-Chrome browser for which Chrome developers must find workarounds. I can't remember encountering a Safari specific problem in the tens of websites I have developed in the last years. Now sure I understand the pain if you are developing web apps instead, but in that case maybe it's time to assume Chrome is a…

Sure, simple websites mostly work in Safari. But we're in 2022, and indeed a lot of companies develop web apps, and not simple websites like 20 years ago. The web itself is an app platform. The only browser preventing it to happen on mobile is Safari. Have a look at the desktop. There, web apps have replaced most native apps long ago.

> The web itself is an app platform.

It's not. And frankly will never be.

> The only browser preventing it to happen on mobile is Safari.

It's not preventing anything

> look at the desktop. There, web apps have replaced most native apps long ago.

What a strange fantasy world you live in.

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