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Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

bleepingcomputer.com

241–249 of 249 posts

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#241
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't delude yourself and others. Wars of aggression are the prelude to world wars and mass scale violence.

I try to neither delude myself nor others. I try to understand what makes people tick. And act the way they do. Unilaterally declaring other insane or crazy or anything like that, while making ourselves feel good and superior, doesn't help in understanding why people act like they do. And understanding might help in finding better ways to act and reach common goals like reducing the number of people suffering in the…

> Unilaterally declaring other insane or crazy or anything like that, while making ourselves feel good and superior, doesn't help in understanding why people act like they do.

Why not? If they in fact are insane, then how would not realising that be useful?

On the contrary, I'd say if they are and we realise that they are, we have a much better chance at understanding why they act like they do than if we pretend they aren't.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he is implying that a 0.05% typo rate is a sign of ulterior motives or incompetence. Apparently.

Typing on mobile as a non native English speaker my typo rate is probably higher than that.

Does your phone include a "the" for you, too?

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You start by "suggesting Russians are playing a rational game..." but literally the next sentence is condescending western rhetoric. We don't know the strategy and the plan. We might, even maybe reasonably, deduce that Russian leadership thought that Ucrain would fall more quickly. And that some form of stable solution would be the result. But most people don't only have one plan to reach a longer term strategic goal…

>condescending western rhetoric. >Ucrain I don't know. Just a smell.

Not only that, but "the Ucrain".

Not just a smell; more of a stench.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you not keep up to date? I live in New Zealand, a western democratic country and if I possess or share "objectionable material" of a political nature, I could land in jail for up to 14 years. What exactly? I could not find anything by Googling on material which would land you in jail for 14 years.

Ch*d p*n, at a guess?

The relevant legislation is on the surface about CP, but if you read the fine print it includes anything that:

d) Promotes criminal acts or acts of terrorism; or

e) Represents any particular class of the public as inherently inferior as a result of a characteristic of members of that class being a characteristic that is a prohibited ground of discrimination specified in the Human Rights Act 1993.

https://www.dia.govt.nz/Digital-Child-Exploitation-Objection...

So yes, non-CP content is punishable by 14 years in prison if it's against the "regime". What Russia is doing is hardly unprecedented.

---

The broader point I was trying to make here is that more democratic does not mean more pro-western.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question is how come Finland, with their history with Russia, isn't already in NATO ?

It's largely because Finland has never felt a need to be in NATO. During the cold war Finland was firmly Soviet aligned despite all the claims of neutrality, the Finnish president, Urho Kekkonen, was de facto a dictator who stayed in power through Kremlin's support (although he wasn't really bad for Finland) and Finland had a defence guarantee from the Soviet Union in the form of the YYK-agreement. After the Cold War…

> It's largely because Finland has never felt a need to be in NATO.

Well, at least Finland never said it felt a need to be in NATO... But there are more reasons not to say you feel something than not actually feeling it.

> During the cold war Finland was firmly Soviet aligned despite all the claims of neutrality,

At least it certainly behaved like it was "firmly Soviet aligned"... But there are more reasons to behave some particular way than one's own volition or conviction.

> the Finnish president, Urho Kekkonen, was de facto a dictator

Whoa! Yeah, sure, that's one way of putting it... But certainly the most drastic possible one. There are other equally valid and significantly less drastic words for him.

> who stayed in power through Kremlin's support

Well, or through the Finnish people's and politicians' trust that he was the best suited, through personal connections and enjoying the Kremlin's trust in him personally, at navigating the tricky relationship with the big neighbour. OK, that's kind of "through [the][1] Kremlin's support", but only indirectly and mainly as modulated through the Finns' own confidence in him. Above all, when the time came to retire him, they did (although given the slight farce of those last few years, yes, it could have come some years earlier).

> (although he wasn't really bad for Finland)

> and Finland had a defence guarantee from the Soviet Union in the form of the YYK-agreement.

Well, it's hard to claim that was much of a useful "guarantee", given who the only plausible aggressor one could have had to defend against was... It's not like Sweden or Norway were ever very likely to attack, and Estonia didn't exist as an independent nation a the time. The only nation that had ever attacked Finland was the Soviet Union. So that was pretty much a null clause of the agreement.

> After the Cold War Russia was expected to become a western liberal democracy and as such not a threat, and even after it became clear that it wouldn't become one people still understood it as a "known threat" and a bully which would act tough and try to intimidate but who would never actually hit you.

Hmmnyeah, OK, that was pretty much the consensus -- at least as far as what was possible to gather from public political debate, so the official "consensus" -- but there certainly were also other currents among the population at large, from at least as early as the fall of the Soviet Union.

> The largest reason for why joining NATO got a surge in polls is that most people weren't expecting the Invasion of Ukraine (I myself believed that they would've limited themselves to just Donbass and Luhansk).

The largest reason for it surging now, definitely. But...

> I expect, although I may be wrong, that once people calm down support for joining NATO will fall,

...but that doesn't necessarily mean it'll fall back to earlier levels once this war fades from the front pages and the top of the TV evening news: It may have raised the ground level permanently, by convincing at least some of the erstwhile NATO-naysayers that they had been too optimistic about Russia.[2] As you say you were. Would you now say the invasion of Ukraine has changed your personal assessment of risk from Russia permanently, or will you in the future think it's only as dangerous as you thought before?

> although the FUD spread by NATO supporters about how we would need to fight Russia alone if were not in NATO despite being covered by EU's article 42.7 may keep it high.

Sigh... It's not "FUD"; it's the folks yelling "EU 42.7 is just as good as NATO 5!" who are spreading a falsehood. Dunno if they actually believe it or are consciously spreading deceitful anti-NATO propaganda; probably some of this, some of that, and possibly even some in the middle who aren't even sure themselves.

___

[1]: Ootsä suomalainen? Teilläkin on slaavien kanssa tuo article-ongelma yhteistä. No juu, muu tekstisi alla ainakin viittaa melko vahvasti siihen suuntaan että olisit. Mutta olitko elossa Kekkosen aikana? (Itse olin, mutten Suomessa.)

[2]: It's hard to tell, since I personally never was. I can't think of any old dateable writings to prove it, but I've been expecting the other shoe to drop on Ukraine since at least the invasion of Crimea.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States do not have the ability to degrade or deny a gps signal based on location unless that particular location has a physical GPS jammer. I don't see what the US would gain from disrupting civilian airtraffic navigation. Just stop with your "either is a likely cause here"-spiel.

Explain why only the "Russia did it"-spiel is allowed here.

> Explain why only the "Russia did it"-spiel is allowed here.

Because

A) Absolutely nobody fucking else would have any reason to? and/or

B) They're the one with a decades-long habit of doing shit like that? but,

C) Hey, "allowed"?!? Is anyone deleting your alternative (=P-burg Factory) "spiels"? only,

D) Be prepared for them to be laughed all to Hell like they deserve. and...

E) ...to be categorised as a Putler-propaganda troll. To paraphrase a great philosopher, Putler-troll is as Putler-troll does.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#247
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an ability to improve service for users of M-code receivers, which AFAIK are only available to the military (and it's new technology, so I'd expect it to be unsupported even by most military receivers currently in use).

The M-code is transmitted in the same L1 and L2 frequencies already in use Nothing says that they have to transmit M-codes from the spot beam antenna. In fact, since the M-codes are hardly used, it's pretty certain they're using that antenna for something else. How very convenient that those antennae are designed to transmit on the same frequency as the "ordinary" antenna.

> The M-code is transmitted in the same L1 and L2 frequencies already in use

Let's quote the whole thing, shall we?

The M-code is transmitted in the same L1 and L2 frequencies already in use by the previous military code, the P(Y) code. The new signal is shaped to place most of its energy at the edges (away from the existing P(Y) and C/A carriers).

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#248
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an ability to improve service for users of M-code receivers, which AFAIK are only available to the military (and it's new technology, so I'd expect it to be unsupported even by most military receivers currently in use).

The M-code is transmitted in the same L1 and L2 frequencies already in use Nothing says that they have to transmit M-codes from the spot beam antenna. In fact, since the M-codes are hardly used, it's pretty certain they're using that antenna for something else. How very convenient that those antennae are designed to transmit on the same frequency as the "ordinary" antenna.

Today I took the time to have a closer look. Turns out, the directional antenna for M-code is only present on Block III GPS satellites, and only four of those are currently in service:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_Block_III

So this is definitely not the correct explanation.

Besides, even if there were enough Block III satellites in orbit to provide constant cover of the affected area, it would still make little sense to tie up their most advanced capabilities to jam their own legacy signal, when you could just turn off the legacy signal when transiting the target area and provide your own military with continued service using the directional antenna.

And of course, Russia has its own satellite navigation system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS

so you'd also have to explain what the US and NATO could hope to gain from turning off GPS.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#249
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only lived in 3 countries and all I have learned is that some people are good/nice/polite and some people are bad/ugly/rude regardelss of their nationality, religion or culture.

Do we need some kind of -ism for jerks? Or maybe just the term "jerks" is enough. I fucking hate jerks. But sometimes jerks move in and out being classified as jerks, probably myself included, probably you too, dear reader. But when they're being jerks I fucking hate jerks. But if I haven't met them yet, then I haven't defined them as a jerk because in my life's experience I've met jerks that cross any and all classi…

> Do we need some kind of -ism for jerks?

We have one. narcissism, which is characterized by: Lack of empathy. Having an inflated sense of self-importance. Entitlement. Manipulative behavior. Needs constant admiration. Expects special treatment. Exaggerates achievements and talents. Reacts negatively to criticism, immediately will go on the offense. Being preoccupied with fantasies about power, success, and beauty. Secret anxiety due to feelings of inadequacy.

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