I used Apple AirTags, Tiles and a GPS tracker to watch my husband’s every move • Hacker News Board

Re: I used Apple AirTags, Tiles and a GPS tracker to watch my husband’s every move

#241

Post by rootusrootus » Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 1:42 AM UTC

crhulls wrote: post #148

rootusrootus wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a mostly happy user of Life360, not currently paying (but I have in the past). I would be more likely to pay real money for the service if it came with a contractual guarantee that by paying for it, my data would never get sold. Not even in aggregate, 'anonymized'. I like the service, I'm willing to be a customer, but I hate the privacy leak.

We are now on record that data from Tile and Jiobit will NEVER be sold. Period. Some of the other stuff on our data practices were highly sensationalized, and we have a privacy center that allows any user - free or paid - to opt in/out of any portion of our platform they don't like, even ads within the system. So this is something you absolutely don't need to worry about.

I appreciate the direct reply and unequivocal promise, thanks!

Re: I used Apple AirTags, Tiles and a GPS tracker to watch my husband’s every move

#242

Post by jorgesborges » Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 1:54 AM UTC

mlac wrote: post #208

cmckn wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely did things as a teenager that were dangerous, unnecessary, detrimental to my physical or mental health, etc. etc. I don't have kids, but I would probably make some effort to dissuade my kids from doing the same things I did. How do you approach that, without heavy surveillance? Did you just get lucky with good kids? Is having conversations about it enough?

Before my daughter starts driving, I'm going to take her around where I grew up and show her the places where people I knew died in car accidents / other issues, and explain why they died: - These two girls were speeding to make it home by curfew, ran off the road, and died in a car fire over the side of this hill - don't speed if you're running late. Let me know, and get home safely. - This is where a guy was on dru…

What I like about this approach is where you say hey don’t do that, but if you do, just call me, don’t worry about getting in “trouble”, I just want you to be safe and I’m here for you.

I don’t have kids but my parents were like this and I valued it immensely. They never wanted us to be in a position where we needed help but thought we couldn’t ask.

Re: I used Apple AirTags, Tiles and a GPS tracker to watch my husband’s every move

#243

Post by everforward » Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 2:01 AM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #240

Melatonic wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely. No mater what Apple and Tile can only do so much to prevent these kinds of things - at some point it is really down to criminals being criminals. We are perfectly fine with selling anyone with a license a motor vehicle but as we have seen many times in the wrong hands they can easily be dangerous killing machines. I like that Apple is making changes to how they work to discourage Air Tags used for…

All your proposals ignore the fact that someone with electronic design skills can whip up a GPS tracker that is outside of this system. You would have to regulate this at the integrated circuit supplier level. Oops, China; good luck. Note that a tracking device does not have to transmit any information in real time. Suppose someone wants to find out where you live. If they know that they will run into you again somew…

I totally acknowledge that. They're not designed to stop electronic stalking at all costs; I can't really find a way to do that without extremely authoritarian measures.

I don't even think you have to go to China. Any sufficiently motivated person can strap a GPS hat on a Raspberry Pi and make their own tracker, or do the same out of pedestrian electronic parts.

My goal is merely to try to drastically cut down on the more casual "I'd pay $20 to track my wife/SO/friend/whatever" style stalking that AirTags and the like enable, as well as giving victims an easier recourse in the event that a more knowledgeable or motivated adversary targets them. Tracking someone without their knowledge would give a restraining order, and tracking them after that would violate the restraining order which is a crime in all states afaik, and a felony in some of them. It won't outright stop people, but it at least gives victims some teeth to fight back with.

Re: I used Apple AirTags, Tiles and a GPS tracker to watch my husband’s every move

#244

Post by majormajor » Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 2:02 AM UTC

ethbr0 wrote: post #199

cmckn wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely did things as a teenager that were dangerous, unnecessary, detrimental to my physical or mental health, etc. etc. I don't have kids, but I would probably make some effort to dissuade my kids from doing the same things I did. How do you approach that, without heavy surveillance? Did you just get lucky with good kids? Is having conversations about it enough?

I look at it the other way around: I did things as a kid and teenager that were dangerous, unnecessary, detrimental to my physical or mental health... and those things made me... me. So why should I, or do I have a right to, keep my kids from doing the same? We aren't only the product of our positive lessons. A lot of life is learned through burning yourself on the hot stove. And by and large, it usually doesn't kill…

I have a lot of coworkers who are bigger self-starters than I am despite growing up with far more type-A parents than I did. Even to the point of there being stereotypes about the people who can't relax cause their parents drove them so hard for some Asian immigrant groups.

So I think a claim that "controlling parents" -> "adrift young adults" would be hard to support.

Kids need to learn from mistakes, but if not monitored, you can hit the opposite end where the lesson isn't learned because there are no real consequences. For instance, goofing off in high school won't give you consequences until you graduate high school at the earliest, and possibly not until you graduate collect (still goofing off) and suddenly hit a wall in terms of what you can get employment-wise.

Re: I used Apple AirTags, Tiles and a GPS tracker to watch my husband’s every move

#245

Post by glandium » Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 2:07 AM UTC

Knufferlbert wrote: post #219

6510 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone told me that by examining smart meter data by amount, time and duration different appliances could be identified. He was rather surprised himself by the level of detail.

You may be shocked how much more you can get, I heard of being able to identify the movie/tv show you are watching based on power consumption of the TV based on brightness. Obviously depends on how granular the smart metering is, but it sent chills down my spine. https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/01/08/28c3-smart-meter...

You may be shocked what you can figure out from... analyzing the sound of a video. https://youtu.be/e0elNU0iOMY

Re: I used Apple AirTags, Tiles and a GPS tracker to watch my husband’s every move

#246

Post by aeturnum » Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 2:07 AM UTC

I've been aggressively sharing my location with anyone who will have it[1] because I think it's important that we grapple with how many people might be aware of our location at this point. Our locations are all shared with many people we will never meet, often in ways that are indirect. The social experience of being able to see a 'location'[2] at any time is a pretty new idea (relatively) and I think the only way we (collectively) are going to form an opinion about how we would like engage or block it is to engage.

What I mean by 'engage' is not to use location sharing (tho I do), but to hypothesize what each one of us thinks is the right approach to location monitoring (embrace, block, etc) and try to implement it. It's the only way we'll develop informed opinions about what should be different and how to improve the system we are building.

[1] If you reply to this with a Gmail address (or message me on twitter or email me: aeturnum@gmail.com) I'll share my location with you. Feel free to share back, or don't! I am not picky.

[2] The idea of a location is super complicated. It involves coordinate systems and maps and abstraction. So I am loath to just talk about it like it's straightforward.

Re: I used Apple AirTags, Tiles and a GPS tracker to watch my husband’s every move

#247

Post by Gigachad » Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 2:08 AM UTC

technothrasher wrote: post #171

kbos87 wrote: post #32

My comment isn’t specific to AirTags, but there’s a much larger conversation that needs to be had about this gray area of stalking capabilities that are now built into many mainstream products. Here’s a pattern I’ve seen play out more than once among friends and family - they share their location willingly and for seemingly benign reasons. It’s helpful to know when you’ll be getting home so I can start dinner! Just i…

> Checking in constantly. Wondering and/or quizzing their child This behavior is rampant in my peer group. Most of my friends/neighbors are constantly monitoring their teen age children's location, reading their recent calls, texts, and emails, looking at internet usage logs, etc. One of my neighbors even calls her daughter every time she sees she's driving over the speed limit and yells at her. It all seems so creep…

My bf and I share location, I think its pretty useful. Just shortcuts the "how far away are you" conversation every time we need to meet up.

Re: I used Apple AirTags, Tiles and a GPS tracker to watch my husband’s every move

#248

Post by Gigachad » Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 2:12 AM UTC

everforward wrote: post #194

kbos87 wrote: post #32

My comment isn’t specific to AirTags, but there’s a much larger conversation that needs to be had about this gray area of stalking capabilities that are now built into many mainstream products. Here’s a pattern I’ve seen play out more than once among friends and family - they share their location willingly and for seemingly benign reasons. It’s helpful to know when you’ll be getting home so I can start dinner! Just i…

I think there needs to be a delineation between anti-theft devices and anti-loss devices. The sticking point now is that you want to let innocent people know if they're being tracked, but you don't want to let thieves know that they're being tracked. It seems an intractable problem, because there's no way that I can think of for a device to tell the difference between the two. Anti-loss devices should be portable and…

Ideally you want the tracker deeply embedded in the thing being stolen. So for an ebike the tracker is on the main chip of the control board. And the thief gets a message saying "the bike is tracking you" and their only option is to dump the bike rather than rip the tracker off.

Re: I used Apple AirTags, Tiles and a GPS tracker to watch my husband’s every move

#249

Post by Gigachad » Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 2:13 AM UTC

trinovantes wrote: post #68

kbos87 wrote: post #32

My comment isn’t specific to AirTags, but there’s a much larger conversation that needs to be had about this gray area of stalking capabilities that are now built into many mainstream products. Here’s a pattern I’ve seen play out more than once among friends and family - they share their location willingly and for seemingly benign reasons. It’s helpful to know when you’ll be getting home so I can start dinner! Just i…

Only a matter of time before we start seeing news of couples fixing their marriage by sharing AirTags with each other. I say this with sarcasm but recent years have made me wonder what is reality anymore.

You could have location shared with Find My for a long time now.

Re: I used Apple AirTags, Tiles and a GPS tracker to watch my husband’s every move

#250

Post by amoorthy » Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 2:17 AM UTC

cmckn wrote: post #189

technothrasher wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Checking in constantly. Wondering and/or quizzing their child This behavior is rampant in my peer group. Most of my friends/neighbors are constantly monitoring their teen age children's location, reading their recent calls, texts, and emails, looking at internet usage logs, etc. One of my neighbors even calls her daughter every time she sees she's driving over the speed limit and yells at her. It all seems so creep…

I definitely did things as a teenager that were dangerous, unnecessary, detrimental to my physical or mental health, etc. etc. I don't have kids, but I would probably make some effort to dissuade my kids from doing the same things I did. How do you approach that, without heavy surveillance? Did you just get lucky with good kids? Is having conversations about it enough?

The approach I'm trying to take with my kids is make mistakes while your mom and I are here to watch over you. Get this all out of the way now. Because after 18 we might not be around as much and that is not when you want the bulk of your stupidity to be tested.