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Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

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Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#241

Post by qwerty456127 »

oefrha wrote: post #203
a5aAqU wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the anger about the VPN. I think it's a good idea. Reader mode is useful, especially if you block a lot of CSS and JavaScript by default with uMatrix. I don't know why people use DOH anyway. It bypasses your hosts file, so you can't block things as easily.

> Reader mode Pretty sure they meant Pocket when referring to a “bookmark reader”.

Pocket lacks some important features I want it to have so I decided negative when considering a paid subscription. Nevertheless I still like it and am glad it exists. It (pocket-based home page) also is my secondary major source of news about the world and curious facts (HN being the primary).

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#242

Post by stef25 »

styeco wrote: post #18

I really hope the auto-update component doesn't have the same issue, otherwise Firefox is essentially dead on millions of computers owned by non-techies.

Several non techie friends already contacted me about a broken FF. There will be millions of people with this problem, indeed.

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#243

Post by dotdi »

This happened to me and a co-worker too, and I could resolve it with a `sudo killall firefox` and re-starting it.

In contrast to all the heat from many of the comments here, I'll say this: shit happens to any company. My trust in Mozilla is not (yet) shaken just because a bug made it into production, even if that bug made it there due to bad decisions or even (hopefully temporary) lack of vision.

I, for one, am not comfortable with giving full control of the internet to Google and friends, so using FF is one of the things that let me "fight".

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#244

Post by jacquesm »

glandium wrote: post #238
jacquesm wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a very long time die-hard Firefox user, the only reason I even have Chrome on my system is because I built an application that requires WebMIDI, which Firefox still refuses to support. But I'm starting to believe that the browser wars have been conclusively lost and it's time to throw in the towel. Losing a whole morning on this trick is really pissing me off, I'm in the middle of a bunch of stuff and if not for…

https://twitter.com/gabrielesvelto/status/147409707425380352...

Oh good one. Thank you!

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#245

Post by kevingadd »

jacquesm wrote: post #149
00deadbeef wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which wasn't present in previous versions. So this is still a consequence of updates. Looks like HTTP/3 has been in Firefox for around a year

Yes, but if it wasn't active then it might as well not have been. This is a great way to bypass continuity testing, I really pity all those people working the desks in hospitals right now using FireFox who are typically less savvy than your average HN'er in trying to get their work done. If you ship a browser with a time-bomb you are utterly irresponsible.

This isn't a time bomb, it's a symptom of the way modern browsers tend to have centralized I/O which means disk and network traffic goes through a single chokepoint. HTTP3 traffic appears to be able to cause one of Firefox's socket threads to hang, and since everything goes through it, all your network traffic is now dead. Chromium uses a similar model of routing all I/O through specific places, so it's vulnerable to similar sorts of problems (though AFAIK it has never failed this badly in production).

Basically, this could have happened at any point if a production service run by someone like Google, Facebook, Cloudflare etc managed to trigger a sufficiently bad bug in a modern browser's network stack.

If not for the centralized I/O this would just hang a single browser process, which isn't as impactful since Firefox and Chrome both split content out into many processes. It would also make it more obvious which server(s) are responsible since only certain tabs would be dying. FWIW, as far as I know this centralized I/O model was popularized by Google, not Mozilla.

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#246

Post by OnlyLys »

Semaphor wrote: post #63
jacquesm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow, thank you so much for this. I've been trying to troubleshoot this for hours but because my browser didn't work I never thought of checking HN to see if other people had this as well. Another score for automatic updates I guess.

As others said, this happened to all kinds of versions, not just 96.

I'm on 97.0b2 (developer edition), same issue.

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#247

Post by stef25 »

jaxrtech wrote: post #193

The only thing that worked for me was: - Hit Ctrl + Shift + Del (TIL this exists) -- which will open the "Clear Recent History" dialog - Select under the down "Time range to clear": "Everything" - Select at least "Cache" and "Offline Website Data"

Tried that as well, didn't fix it

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#248

Post by qwerty456127 »

captainmuon wrote: post #179
ya_throw wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If they don't turn this around then I hope others will step up and reclaim the web! Have you any idea how complex a browser needs to be? I hope this team of plucky, idealistic coders can keep up with all the latest and greatest web developments devised by the thousands of engineers at Google et al. The web as an open, human-sized system is dead.

If you keep the browser ultra modular, I think it can work. You need to have one component for layout, one for css, one for the DOM, and you can use external libraries for media playback, javascript, networking, and so on. I think a decent layout or CSS library would be useful outside of a web browser, too. Then I would also only focus on the subset of websites that are "documents", not "apps". If I could decide, HTM…

> Google and Apple like

Apple hates web apps. These are pain in their ass on the way to forcing every app to go through their app store with all the dystopian control it implements.

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#249

Post by [deleted] »

michaelanckaert wrote: post #47

It is time for Mozilla to stop messing around. They are losing user trust extremely fast. A silent FireFox update that cripples the browser? No active update was done since yesterday and this morning: a broken browser. Please stop non-browser development and let me pay a monthly fee for a decent browser! I don’t want a VPN service, bookmark readers or other crap. I want Mozilla to defend the open web and create an op…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Firefox connection problems after enabling DoH?

#250

Post by vbezhenar »

probably_wrong wrote: post #219
skywal_l wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Mozilla's income is a problem. They are making money. The problem is how they spend that money. My impression is that they lost the original spirit. Mozilla lacked a BDFL that would embody that spirit. What's going on at Mozilla is probably what's going to happen for Linux once Linus is out. Both these pieces of open source software are way too big to be replicated now by a dude or a bunch of dudes and…

> My impression is that they lost the original spirit. Mozilla lacked a BDFL that would embody that spirit. Since we are sharing our impressions, mine is that the Mozilla Foundation's current CEO doesn't believe in Firefox. Instead, I think, they are leveraging Firefox' popularity to try and position the Mozilla Foundation as a defender of internet freedom, at which point they won't need Firefox anymore. What happens…

At one point they'll ditch Firefox engine and turn Firefox into Chromium skin. That'll allow to drastically reduce development expenses.

Given the fact that nobody catched Servo after they threw it, the same fate will probably happen with Quantum.

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