Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates • Hacker News Board

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#241

Post by tastyfreeze » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 4:41 PM UTC

driverdan wrote: post #130

cies wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banning health care providers from abortion would be unconstitutional. Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? All medical procedures should be voluntary, or we go back to the times of lobotomy and forced sterilizations of minorities (and that's not as many decades back as you may think). > Government can and has jailed and/or fined people for not getting a vaccine. Thi…

> Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? They are not forced. They can choose to find another job if they don't want it.

Coercion is force. Being told to vaccinate or get fired is not a choice it is coercion.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#242

Post by kevingadd » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 4:41 PM UTC

shantnutiwari wrote: post #226

commandlinefan wrote: post #211

Wow... I thought it was just tinfoil hat types that were avoiding this vaccine because they were afraid Bill Gates was using it to implant a tracking chip inside them. But if healthcare workers - who actually know what's in this thing - are so vaccine-hesitant that the government has to mandate it to them, I'm suddenly worried whether or not I should think twice about getting a booster (or worse, giving it to my chil…

As a Britisher, is there an ELI5 explanation on why so many Americans are opposed to the vaccination, even educated people working in healthcare? It all seems very bizarre to me...

People dying from the virus is useful to an opposition party when they want to argue that the ruling party is doing a bad job and should be replaced.

Things like vaccines also threaten the status of people who use the virus in order to extract money from their audiences, like megachurch preachers and snake oil salesmen. Some people got really wealthy off Ivermectin and HCQ prescriptions during this whole thing.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#243

Post by AnimalMuppet » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

gertrunde wrote: post #175

hestefisk wrote: post #61

Whilst thousands of healthcare workers in the US —- those who are supposed to be proponents of public health measures and rational, scientific thinking - refuse to get vaccinated, ultimately resulting in stockpiles of vaccines getting destroyed … people in third world countries cannot get adequate access to vaccines. This is madness.

This is my biggest worry as well, what are people who clearly do not believe in medical science doing working in a medical capacity? Are these people performing treatments on patients that they do not believe work? The mind boggles.

Maybe their assessment of the medical science does not match yours. And maybe they are in a better position than you to evaluate it.

And, of course, others who are also in that better position evaluate the evidence differently.

One could draw two conclusions from this: "People are idiots", or "the evidence is not as clear-cut as we're being told".

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#244

Post by betwixthewires » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

redblacktree wrote: post #166

crazy1van wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Congress has delegated the authority to make these decisions to regulatory agencies Yes, but at some point there must be a limit to how much power they can delegate. If Congress created a new Super-Congress that it granted all the powers of Congress, I would contend that would be unconstitutional. It clearly goes against the founding principles of having three branches of government. That would be akin to the gover…

It would be up to the judicial branch to make those determinations. So far, they are broadly OK with the delegation that has happened.

...except for the delegation of power to mandate vaccines apparently, which is the focus of this discussion.

If we are going to talk about what's the right answer from a position of "if the court says it that's how it goes" then I can assume you're happy with this court decision?

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#245

Post by dang » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

wayoutthere wrote: post #159

bko wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. It is a political decision to force 2 million Americans to get a vaccine that they don't want under threat of not being allowed to work in their profession. If you disagree with the decision at least you can vote the bastards out. You're acting like its a trivial procedural matter. These people obviously feel very strongly about it since they're under immense pressure everywhere to get it and they still r…

This is absolute horseshit. Government regulation of public health during a pandemic is absolutely its role. We have required a great number of vaccines for the last 100 years. The coronavirus vaccines are some of the most-tested out there. Anti-vaxxing was a fringe position that nobody took seriously before Covid. The only reason this virus is remotely political is because we had a demagogue in the president’s offic…

Hey, would you please not post flamewar comments like this to HN—regardless of how right you are or feel you are? It's not what this site is for, it destroys what it is for, and your post here is a noticeable step down in discussion quality. Several steps actually.

We've had to ask you about this more than once before. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#246

Post by aixi » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #211

Wow... I thought it was just tinfoil hat types that were avoiding this vaccine because they were afraid Bill Gates was using it to implant a tracking chip inside them. But if healthcare workers - who actually know what's in this thing - are so vaccine-hesitant that the government has to mandate it to them, I'm suddenly worried whether or not I should think twice about getting a booster (or worse, giving it to my chil…

I don't know if you're being disingenuous, but health care workers is a very wide group of people; most probably have absolutely no idea about 'whats in this thing', and in my experience most doctors are vaccinated --- it's hospital staff that aren't.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#247

Post by everyoneloves84 » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

driverdan wrote: post #130

cies wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banning health care providers from abortion would be unconstitutional. Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? All medical procedures should be voluntary, or we go back to the times of lobotomy and forced sterilizations of minorities (and that's not as many decades back as you may think). > Government can and has jailed and/or fined people for not getting a vaccine. Thi…

> Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? They are not forced. They can choose to find another job if they don't want it.

So, if my boss says: "have sex with me or lose your job", is that freedom of choice or blackmail?

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#248

Post by 1970-01-01 » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

dham wrote: post #149

1970-01-01 wrote: post #95

Rules and laws. The virus does not care about these. At all. It does not care about your race, it does not care about your age. It doesn't care about your employment status, gender, religion, disability, nationality, wealth, or anything else. All it cares about is if it can replicate. As we debate and discuss and argue if laws and rules are justified or not, the virus simply ignores everything and does what it has be…

I mean it does care about your age and your weight because it in 80% of the hospitalizations and deaths this is the reason of complications.

It doesn't care about that.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#249

Post by kelnos » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

cies wrote: post #100

adrr wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning health care providers from abortion would be unconstitutional. It would be the same as a president banning health care providers from serving muslims. Women have a constitutional right to get an abortion. People don't have a constitutional right to not vaccinate. Government can and has jailed and/or fined people for not getting a vaccine. These SCOTUS approved mandates helped rid America of smallpox.

> Banning health care providers from abortion would be unconstitutional. Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? All medical procedures should be voluntary, or we go back to the times of lobotomy and forced sterilizations of minorities (and that's not as many decades back as you may think). > Government can and has jailed and/or fined people for not getting a vaccine. Thi…

You're aware that we've had vaccine mandates for decades, right? Were you also upset about requiring kids get (for example) MMR vaccines before allowing them to attend public school? If so, then congratulations: some diseases we'd thought we'd eradicated have been coming back because of anti-vax nutjobs.

You are not an island. You live in a society, a community of people that requires individuals to give up some personal liberties for the good of the whole. Those who don't like that should go move to an isolated island where their harm to others can be limited.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#250

Post by beerandt » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

zamadatix wrote: post #2

Original title is much more accurate "Courts block two Biden administration COVID vaccine mandates", the edited one here "Courts block Covid vaccine mandates for healthcare workers nationwide" implies something much larger in scope.

The mandates blocked are for healthcare workers nationwide, it's factually correct.