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Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

nytimes.com

241–250 of 354 posts

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The attacks on him is just and fair because he demands the right to take by force other peoples money. The rich already pay the most tax. Why should they pay more?

I honestly don't understand your question. I don't mean that statement to be argumentative – I really don't understand. Are you saying the top 1% should pay what I paid in taxes last year? I paid around $100k. I'm not sure why someone making millions to billions a year should only pay $100k. If you assert I should pay the same as high-income individuals, should someone making far less than I am also pay $100k? To fli…

I think, if you paid £100k in taxes, and you say that was 23% of your income, that puts you well within the 1% you talk about.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#242
post #22

The problem is getting low to middle income people to stop voting against themselves. Good luck with that, they all seem to think they are going to be billionaires someday so better keep those billionaire taxes low. Either that or by bribing the wealthy with low taxes they might only ship out half the jobs overseas instead of all of them. It's just dumbfounding. Election after election, over and over.

I keep trying to formulate my take on this, and failing, but here goes anyway: The democratic party and American leftists no longer understand non-college working people and, for the most part, no longer reach out to them. Working people think that the left today advocates either for weirdos or for the completely screwed up, and wants everybody to pay for its programs to help said weirdos and fuckups. There is some v…

So at what point are the "working poor" not stupid by voting for taxes against the rich instead of tax cuts for the "working poor".

All the stuff you said is media nonsense and frankly suggesting that the republicans in any way represent the working poor is, well, nonsense. What you seem to be wanting is some sort of friend who can tell you that gays or gay marriage is bad, church is good, though I bet you or the working poor never go, and that character matters, but that this friend of yours takes a lot of your money you desperately need in order to take less from filthy rich people that actually do not need it at all does not seem to matter to you at all or indeed this characteristic of this friend of yours does not seem to bother you at all.

Ohh well, each to their own.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

surely you should have an answer to that question before you start claiming that 30% is screwing you?

Exhibit A would be the lack of societal collapse during the 90s, when government spending per-capita and as a percentage of GDP was significantly lower than today.

If we're going to cite the 90s, let's not forget that taxes were a good bit higher then as well. In fact, right at the end there, we had a budget surplus.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#244
post #89
post #22

The problem is getting low to middle income people to stop voting against themselves. Good luck with that, they all seem to think they are going to be billionaires someday so better keep those billionaire taxes low. Either that or by bribing the wealthy with low taxes they might only ship out half the jobs overseas instead of all of them. It's just dumbfounding. Election after election, over and over.

This assumes low to middle income people are single issue voters and that issue happens to be the effective tax rate of billionaires. What's dumbfounding is that there are people who believe that wealth is zero-sum, and that by taking from the rich and giving to the poor, "justice" would be done, never taking into account what produces wealth or the fact that living standards have improved despite the rich getting ri…

I think there is a point about fairness as well. Taxes are progressive for a reason. Those with the broadest shoulders should bear the greater burden.

Warrent Buffet is perhaps giving away a lot of what he maybe would have given in taxes but plenty of billionaires or super rich just spend it on their spoiled sons and daughters, some who end up in rehab, spent a tremendous amount of resources to create a parallel society where meritocracy applies only to some people and/or just waste it in obscene luxuries such as a 10k bottle of champaign, etc and to boot it all, at the end of the day, they are rich only because they are in many ways not paying the working people the proper wages so that they can pay themselves obscene amounts. I mean, how much more smart are the bank CEOs who got us in this mess to start with to justify a salary 100 times more than others working there.

But even on a practical rather that political level, for most of these supper rich, the difference between 1 million or 2 million does not mater but in some silly psychological keeping up with the jones nonsense and for many even the keeping up with the jones does not apply because they are the jones. But for a lot of "working poor" lowering the taxes from 25% to 17% makes a real difference, a difference of a kind which may mean that their children will properly be looked after and have all the support to say study and do well in school.

Finally, you say you want Warrent Buffet to keep the money and you don't want people to take it away from him. Well, I don't want people to take my money away through taxes either. No one does. Its not about want, or even opinion, its about fairness. Some of the deficit was built up because the rich pay so little and to ask the non rich to bear all the burden is a double wammy. No wonder you have 250k people protesting in Israel and kids burning chain stores in London.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#245
post #22

The problem is getting low to middle income people to stop voting against themselves. Good luck with that, they all seem to think they are going to be billionaires someday so better keep those billionaire taxes low. Either that or by bribing the wealthy with low taxes they might only ship out half the jobs overseas instead of all of them. It's just dumbfounding. Election after election, over and over.

I keep trying to formulate my take on this, and failing, but here goes anyway: The democratic party and American leftists no longer understand non-college working people and, for the most part, no longer reach out to them. Working people think that the left today advocates either for weirdos or for the completely screwed up, and wants everybody to pay for its programs to help said weirdos and fuckups. There is some v…

Ok, so the urban leftist elite don't get "Joe Six Pack". Then why don't the working people go left on their own?

Here's the thing: they did. They just don't know it. The rural populace gobble all sorts of government programs, from farm subsidies to electric power generation. Most of the solid Republican states receive more federal spending than they pay.

And the GOP knows it, so it keeps Farm Subsidies off the table while it takes pot-shots at NPR.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't understand your question. I don't mean that statement to be argumentative – I really don't understand. Are you saying the top 1% should pay what I paid in taxes last year? I paid around $100k. I'm not sure why someone making millions to billions a year should only pay $100k. If you assert I should pay the same as high-income individuals, should someone making far less than I am also pay $100k? To fli…

I think, if you paid £100k in taxes, and you say that was 23% of your income, that puts you well within the 1% you talk about.

Whether or not he correctly estimated the size of the difference between them, his points stand.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#247
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. He's not trying to "make a donation", he's saying that everyone should share the burden - including himself and people like him. It's not just that the rich kids should pay for the park, it's that everyone but the rich kids are being asked to pay some extra.

Does Mr Buffett employ an accountant to do his taxes? Does said accountant employ any tax avoidance strategies?

Buffet famously said that his receptionists paid a higher tax rate than he did. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ec...

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe it either. Some even believe in the economists' equivalent of a cosmological constant: PPP, which when employed miraculously turns Louisiana into a richer place than Switzerland.

What? Louisiana has a GDP per capita (PPP) of $37K. Switzerland has a GDP per capita (PPP) of $41.6K. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_... In regards to GDP by PPP: "Comparisons of national wealth are also frequently made on the basis of nominal GDP, which does not reflect differences in the cost of living in different countrie…

That's interesting. From my subjective observations while traveling in Louisiana and in Switzerland I'd say people in Switzerland are living much better. Where does all that GDP go?

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#249
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know the PATRIOT Act, all those porn scanners, Homeland Security, and decade-long wars were small government. Refresh for me again under what leadership all those started?

My memory is a little cloudy as well. Maybe you can tell me who continued all those things, and even extended them. But I thought we were talking about economics.

That's not really a counter argument. You stated republicans stand for small government, not democrats. You were given concrete examples which disprove what you stated. Arguing that the democrats are just the same is simply stating that republicans do not stand for small government.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#250
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Mr Buffett employ an accountant to do his taxes? Does said accountant employ any tax avoidance strategies?

Wouldn't you if you had tons of money?, especially if all the other "rich kids" are doing the same?. If you expect people to always do the altruistic thing then be prepared for a life full of disappointment. The best you can do is try to shape peoples behavior. Personally I would prefer a flat percentage rate of tax with an exception for very low incomes where it just isn't worth the governments time trying to collec…

> a flat percentage rate of tax with an exception for very low incomes

That's not a flat tax, then, is it? It's progressive with two bands, 0% and x%.

There is a real case for tax simplification, but the progressive nature of income tax is probably the simplest thing in the entire tax code! It's the classification of different kinds of income and capital gains, exemptions and penalties for particular uses of money/assets that makes it challenging and is the reason there is real money in tax avoidance. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

Finally, a progressive tax means higher earners pay a larger proportion of their income than lower earners. It's hard to gauge the validity of your argument when your assertions run contrary to the definitions of the words you use.

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