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Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

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201–210 of 354 posts

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#201

All of the comments here attacking Warren Buffett's authenticity, suggesting that he should put his money where his mouth is and write the Treasury a big fat check, are missing the whole point. Services provided by the government are public goods. It's blindingly obvious that a single person cannot pay for those public goods. Just Buffett's own contributions, no matter how much he donates, will not be enough to solve…

The attacks on him is just and fair because he demands the right to take by force other peoples money.

The rich already pay the most tax. Why should they pay more?

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#202

All of the comments here attacking Warren Buffett's authenticity, suggesting that he should put his money where his mouth is and write the Treasury a big fat check, are missing the whole point. Services provided by the government are public goods. It's blindingly obvious that a single person cannot pay for those public goods. Just Buffett's own contributions, no matter how much he donates, will not be enough to solve…

"It's blindingly obvious that a single person cannot pay for those public goods." ... "It's called shared sacrifice because it's meaningless unless everyone participates." Huh? By this logic, taxes are "meaningless" unless everyone pays taxes. However, many poor and lower-income people do not pay income taxes. Does that render the income tax "meaningless"? Also, the claim that it's "like the neighborhood park... [e]v…

  > Also, the claim that it's "like the neighborhood park... [e]veryone
  > wants one, but no one wants to pay for it" is absurd. We see many
  > examples of charitable contributions made by the rich and the middle
  > class which are used to purchase public goods such as museums, nature
  > preserves and the like.
We also see many cases of governments which have much higher tax rates than ours and provide fantastic public services.

  > When push comes to shove, what Buffet really wants -- and what you are
  > advocating when you say that no matter how much money he donates, it
  > "will not be enough to solve our budget issues" -- is an increase in the
  > size of government fueled by higher taxes, rather than a diminution of
  > its scope by reducing the funds made available to it.
Being blunt: How do you know what Buffett really wants, or what orijing is really advocating? You've just described how you perceive Buffett's motives and orijing's assertions.

And why present this as a "lower taxes vs. smaller government" issue? That seems incredibly disingenuous. What is truly being advocated by many is a combination of both. What's the best way to solve a debt issue? Increase income while also decreasing spending. Why cripple the process by ignoring half the solution?

  > A bigger government benefits crony capitalists like Buffet, because they
  > have sufficient power and influence to ensure that the goodies that can
  > be redistributed by the Leviathan are steered their way. I wish Buffet
  > would be honest enough to say that, rather than bloviating about how
  > terrible it is that he doesn't pay enough taxes when he is unwilling to
  > take the obvious direct action necessary to rectify that unfortunate
  > situation.
What evidence do you have of Buffett benefiting from government programs, or having taken advantage of cronyism? Honest question – he very well may have significantly increased his wealth from connections with other "crony capitalists". I have no evidence either way.

That said, do we need to look at past examples of when aggressive government spending has helped individuals or small companies? Once again, this doesn't need to be a black and white world – as the spender of last resort, the government can provide liquidity and resources to individuals, small companies, and large companies when no one else is willing to take the risk. Yes, some people may profit immensely as a result. Does that mean those programs were wrong? And a bigger government doesn't have to only benefit "crony capitalists"...

I don't understand why a holistic view is so rarely considered in these discussions. Rather than making this an "right vs. wrong", "rich vs. poor", "liberal vs. conservative", "communist vs. capitalist" argument, let's make it a discussion to find the best solution to our problems. Only then will we actually solve the problems our country faces.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#203

Reading this just makes me think of all of the lobbying dollars and campaign contributions that must have been paid by the super-rich to get these tax breaks. Am I the only one that feels some populist rage welling up when he hears how much money is wasted on campaigning for office and influencing people in office? Aren't there more worthy uses of wealth and scarce resources? And it just pains me that so many people…

The problem is not how much money is being 'donated'. The amount is fairly insignificant. The problem is the influence it buys and how that influence impacts the bigger picture.

So yes, I agree with you that this kind of corruption is a big problem. But how much money goes around in that circuit is not what concerns me, personally.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#204

All of the comments here attacking Warren Buffett's authenticity, suggesting that he should put his money where his mouth is and write the Treasury a big fat check, are missing the whole point. Services provided by the government are public goods. It's blindingly obvious that a single person cannot pay for those public goods. Just Buffett's own contributions, no matter how much he donates, will not be enough to solve…

"It's blindingly obvious that a single person cannot pay for those public goods." ... "It's called shared sacrifice because it's meaningless unless everyone participates." Huh? By this logic, taxes are "meaningless" unless everyone pays taxes. However, many poor and lower-income people do not pay income taxes. Does that render the income tax "meaningless"? Also, the claim that it's "like the neighborhood park... [e]v…

I think you're missing the point. No one person alone can fix this extremely complicated budget crisis. What "obvious direct action necessary" are you recommending for Buffet? Even if Buffet donated all of his money to the US gov't, it's not going to solve the problem. Will it help as a stop-gap? Yes, but it's just a quick fix. There must be a collective response, which includes everyone - lower class, middle class, congress, mega-rich, etc - for lasting progress. This is what Buffet is calling for and he specifically calls out the demographic he represents - the mega-rich.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's blindingly obvious that a single person cannot pay for those public goods." ... "It's called shared sacrifice because it's meaningless unless everyone participates." Huh? By this logic, taxes are "meaningless" unless everyone pays taxes. However, many poor and lower-income people do not pay income taxes. Does that render the income tax "meaningless"? Also, the claim that it's "like the neighborhood park... [e]v…

> many poor and lower-income people do not pay income taxes. And many middle-income people. ~45% of US households pay no federal income tax.

While strictly true, this statement ignores all the other taxes that people pay. Rather than rehashing the entire conversation, I'll simply point you towards the thread where this was previously addressed: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2885574

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#207
post #39

Taxing the money that moves - as it is earned - will only produce so much revenue. The rich need to be taxed, not beccause it will allow lots of lovely spending, because the gov will inevitably do a bad job of spending it. Though you could put it towards debt reduction first. You have to tax the money that doesn't move. The millions of unneeded unspent $ that the rich are sitting on, with a wealth tax. You may not ev…

It's a nice intention, but how do you devise that mechanism? If I keep $10,000 in my savings account for 30 years, are you going to tax it every year?

The government does that already by printing more money. The more money printed the less valuable your $10K. Better to keep money on assets that do not devalue with inflation.

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#208

All of the comments here attacking Warren Buffett's authenticity, suggesting that he should put his money where his mouth is and write the Treasury a big fat check, are missing the whole point. Services provided by the government are public goods. It's blindingly obvious that a single person cannot pay for those public goods. Just Buffett's own contributions, no matter how much he donates, will not be enough to solve…

The attacks on him is just and fair because he demands the right to take by force other peoples money. The rich already pay the most tax. Why should they pay more?

I honestly don't understand your question. I don't mean that statement to be argumentative – I really don't understand.

Are you saying the top 1% should pay what I paid in taxes last year? I paid around $100k. I'm not sure why someone making millions to billions a year should only pay $100k. If you assert I should pay the same as high-income individuals, should someone making far less than I am also pay $100k?

To flip it around, if you assert someone making less than me should not pay the same dollar amount as me, then why should someone making many orders of magnitude more than me pay the same dollar amount?

Now then, if I assume you're asserting the mega-rich should pay the same percentage as me, then we both agree that Buffett should pay more. My tax rate was 23% while Buffett's was only 17%.

How ever you slice it, someone's going to have to pay more than someone else. Either the poor need to pay less since they can't afford the flat dollar rate that's established, or the rich need to pay more because the flat percentage rate means they owe more.

Thus, I don't understand your question – it seems logical that, given any taxation system, the rich should pay more. Am I missing something?

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Please explain how the living standard in the US can have improved if real wages have fallen." I cannot believe the ignorance of Ycombinator at times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&#... Keep calm. Carry on.

I can't believe it either. Some even believe in the economists' equivalent of a cosmological constant: PPP, which when employed miraculously turns Louisiana into a richer place than Switzerland.

[deleted]

Re: Warren Buffett: Stop coddling the super rich

#210
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we want shared sacrifice, maybe we should ask people at the bottom to share as well. Do you actually know anybody at the bottom? I would be fascinated to hear what you'd suggest someone cut when they're earning ~10-15k/year. For those likewise unfamiliar, I recommend sci-fi author John Scalzi's "Being Poor": http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ Both the article and the comments are worth reading.

Scalzi's article about "Being Poor" is definitely not a description of poverty in the United States. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1713461

Yes, I am certainly going to believe your hazy handwaving over his direct statements: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/#comment-64...

Of course, I didn't need that to know where he went wrong: I know actual poor people in the US. Maybe you should go meet some.

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